Everything 2018 NBA draft

[DanH]

How so, if DeMar taking over a lot of the ball handling duties is what lead to Lowry have a good playoff run?

That has nothing to do with Lowry having a good playoff run. DeMar's usage was actually down from the past. It was the complementary players that took on more usage. And the biggest contributing factor for Lowry was not the decreased usage but the dramatically decreased minutes. Which I would think would stay in the low-30's, with Wright and FVV and Doncic around.

[DanH]

I didn't suggest they were but Doncic's are. He will be exploited. It will be tough to win when your best guy is getting steamrolled nightly in the post season. He can only set the tone on one side of the court, you can't win like that unless you have Warriors level luck.

I'm also not a proponent of keeping DD.

I agree it would be tough to win if your best guy is getting steamrolled every night. Certainly a good reason for teams to pass on Steph Curry or Steve Nash too.

Doncic is no more exploitable defensively than many young players, and what improvement he can make won't be known for some time.

[Apollo]

I didn't suggest they were but Doncic's are. He will be exploited. It will be tough to win when your best guy is getting steamrolled nightly in the post season. He can only set the tone on one side of the court, you can't win like that unless you have Warriors level luck.

I'm also not a proponent of keeping DD.

And by luck I mean hitting on pick after pick.

[Apollo]

I agree it would be tough to win if your best guy is getting steamrolled every night. Certainly a good reason for teams to pass on Steph Curry or Steve Nash too.

Doncic is no more exploitable defensively than many young players, and what improvement he can make won't be known for some time.

He's at a much bigger disadvantage than Curry. I love Nash but how many chips does Nash have? Even having the Matrix on the court couldn't save that team in the playoffs on defense.

[Apollo]

The more I think about it, I'd rather see them move in later and get more value. Doncic will be nice in fantasy basketball though.

[DanH]

If they had the opportunity to get Doncic, and passed, I'd be quite upset. I doubt they get such an opportunity though, so you are probably safe, Apollo.

[Apollo]

If they had the opportunity to get Doncic, and passed, I'd be quite upset. I doubt they get such an opportunity though, so you are probably safe, Apollo.

How do you define "opportunity"? They might have to essentially gut it all to move up that high. DD, maybe OG and picks.

[DanH]

How do you define "opportunity"? They might have to essentially gut it all to move up that high. DD, maybe OG and picks.

I mean the example you gave earlier, the commonly suggested move. DD for Parsons and 4.

[Apollo]

I mean the example you gave earlier, the commonly suggested move. DD for Parsons and 4.

Why assume that's enough? I wouldn't do that deal personally if I'm the Grizz. It would be incredibly shortsighted.

[DanH]

Why assume that's enough? I wouldn't do that deal personally if I'm the Grizz. It would be incredibly shortsighted.

Sure, and if that's not enough, the Raptors look elsewhere. I'm saying if it was enough, and the Grizzlies were on board with that deal, you wouldn't want them to make that trade, preferring something like the Clips' 12 and 13 to get more pieces further down, based on what you had said. I would definitely make the trade with the Grizz.

[planetmars]

Sure, and if that's not enough, the Raptors look elsewhere. I'm saying if it was enough, and the Grizzlies were on board with that deal, you wouldn't want them to make that trade, preferring something like the Clips' 12 and 13 to get more pieces further down, based on what you had said. I would definitely make the trade with the Grizz.

Can the Clippers trade both their picks this year? Their 2019 pick is owed to Boston (with protections but that's out of their control at this point).

[Apollo]

Sure, and if that's not enough, the Raptors look elsewhere. I'm saying if it was enough, and the Grizzlies were on board with that deal, you wouldn't want them to make that trade, preferring something like the Clips' 12 and 13 to get more pieces further down, based on what you had said. I would definitely make the trade with the Grizz.

Sure but my point is it's going to cost more than that deal and so the value is found later. It probably why the rumor is about a pick in around #10 to pick up a play maker.

Bring the kid home to Canada and let him become a star.

[DanH]

Can the Clippers trade both their picks this year? Their 2019 pick is owed to Boston (with protections but that's out of their control at this point).

The rules are fuzzy at the draft. The teams can agree to the deal, then the Clips could just select the players the Raptors want, and trade them their rights after the draft. Then the rule about future picks wouldn't apply to the 2018 picks, and they'd be good because they'd have their 2020, so not having their 2019 is no issue. Pretty common mechanism for draft day deals (technically, picks can't be traded between the evening of the day before the draft until the pick is used).

[DanH]

Sure but my point is it's going to cost more than that deal and so the value is found later. It probably why the rumor is about a pick in around #10 to pick up a play maker.

Bring the kid home to Canada and let him become a star.

Yeah, sure, and I have no issue with that. This was my whole point - if the presumed value (DD for Parsons+4) is there, I want them to make that trade. If the presumed value is not there, then yes, of course I'm fine with them pursuing lower picks, as no, of course I'm not OK with selling high end youth to get high end youth.

[blackjitsu]

Their problem was never that JV and Serge started together. It seemed to be what the coaching staff thought the problem was, which was problematic, as when they "fixed" that "problem" they completely scuttled their chances to actually compete against the Cavs. The pairing ran up a -5 net rating against the Cavs. The team as a whole ran up a -11.4 net rating. So them starting was far from their biggest problem. Especially considering the pair played exclusively when both LBJ and Love were on the court.

Cool, but during the regular season Serge's best pairing was with Pascal. In the playoffs, he was never paired with Pascal. Instead, they had him in numerous lineups as the only big, often with CJ as the next "big." The -5 net rating is still a negative. I'm arguing that it's partially a personnel issue.

But, as I dig deeper in these stats, what the hell was Casey doing? Some of these lineups are bad ideas. Maybe if you have 3's who can legit guard PFs, but I'm seeing CJ as the "4" in way too many playoff lineups. Heck, I'm seeing CJ in way too many of these playoff lineups period. Replace half of those with a long 3 who can actually switch onto PFs and on paper that resolves a lot of deficiencies.

As I said, that's a major flaw in their current roster. OG is basically the only modern SF on the roster. They could have easily hidden CJ defensively if they were deeper at forward.

The fact that the Raps best net rating lineup had their best players on it doesn't change the fact that Serge is not being put in a position to succeed when he's on the court. He did disappoint these playoffs.

Again, how does drafting a guard resolve the forward and PF issues the team clearly has? Serge played Center in every lineup he was in accept when he played with the starters (from what I can see). Probably because he's a modern center. Wouldn't it be nice if he was paired with a modern, small ball 4 when he played the 5?

The Raps went into the playoffs with 4 point guards, 4 Centers, 2 SGs, 2 SFs, and 1 PF. Of the 3 forwards that dressed, 2 could switch onto bigger players and the other was CJ -- who is a great leader, has value as a shooter, but should not be switching onto PFs. To me that's an obvious deficiency. Issues with properly filling the forward positions is a consistent narrative that has followed the Raps for years. Resolve that, and then make whatever trades they want for their dream guard.

I'm not against trading Lowry and/or Demar, but if they don't find at least a solid defensive minded 3/4 and (ideally) a legit PF as well, they're going to run into the same issues over and over again.