Raptors starting line up

[Barolt]

I’m still not 100% sold on Green’s consistency and would prefer to keep Miles for that reason alone.

We’re clearly trying to contend, I think we should just go the FA route.

Bring back Bebe, then try for a West type player.

Wouldn’t hate a Norm trade for a Dedmon type but idk I feel like Norm has the lowest value he’s ever had and probably ever will have

To add to this, feels like Miles is a great locker room guy too, and he gets along great with the young guys.(Also, would hate to lose his wife from Raptors twitter, she's awesome)

[white men can't jump]

I’m still not 100% sold on Green’s consistency and would prefer to keep Miles for that reason alone.

We’re clearly trying to contend, I think we should just go the FA route.

Bring back Bebe, then try for a West type player.

Wouldn’t hate a Norm trade for a Dedmon type but idk I feel like Norm has the lowest value he’s ever had and probably ever will have

Why are you worried about Green's consistency but not Miles? Their %s last year were almost identical. Miles is a streaky player, and he doesn't give you anything other than shooting. At least Green plays D at a high level. Do you think Green will be a bad locker room guy? No reason to think that.

We are trying to contend, but it depends on what caliber of player they want. I think the likeliest route is the free agency route, but there are no real good options there.

Bebe is trash. We renounced him because he's not worth more than the minimum, and he's clearly had no real offers from other NBA teams. Maybe a couple of teams offered him minimum deals and he doesn't want to take them. He's a soft player in every sense, and makes pretty bad injury insurance since he tends to be injury prone himself. If I were him I'd look to go back to Spain for a year or two to try and improve.

Not a lot of names available. Monroe is still out there, but we probably can't offer him consistent minutes, especially with Serge around. West may decide to retire, and if not why would he come to Toronto instead of just going back to GSW (I assume they'd probably be ok bringing him back on a minimum deal)? He doesn't need to ring chase anymore, so I feel like he'd prefer a familiar situation in GSW or just retire.

Maybe instead of Bebe, look at a more physical player like Tarik Black? Maybe bring both and make sure you have a lot of Tums ready for when you have to watch them play?

Go into the season like that and then you can re-assess later on and see if you can trade a wing for a big if there is an option that makes sense. At which point Green might become the easiest piece to move since he's expiring, but it might still be better to keep him and try to trade Miles (or Norm if he gains any value).

[planetmars]

Norm should be untouchable at this point.. if his mom really is friends with Kawhi's mom.. that's a connection we don't want to break or sour. It's worth the $10M to just hope that Kawhi sticks around.. even if Norm doesn't play much.

For the 4th big I'd like a banger/rebounder over a stretch player (ideally you'd want both but we're looking at minimum deals unless we can find a guy for Miles). Feels like we need a JV replacement more so than anything (due to him being tired, in foul trouble or injured). Guys on my short list are West, Monroe, and Booker.

West has played with Kawhi before.. so that could really help. I'd like a vet over a young guy (like Vonleh as an example). Lowry could use all the help he could get now that DeMar and Casey are gone.

[Mitch P]

Injury insurance

We’re a JV injury away from being in serious trouble

A very good point. The Raptors were very fortunate to avoid injuries last year until FVV went down on the eve of the playoffs; with a huge impact. Assuming Kawhi is an enthusiastic participant the potential Raptor lineups are mouth watering. As we all assume more minutes for JV will largely replace the absence of Poeltl it's almost like getting Danny Green for nothing and he is SUCH a useful piece. But an injury to JV could make it all come crashing down. Ibaka or Siakam playing a series of games as the only centre options would likely be a disaster....especially if it came at playoff time. But perhaps they can start the season as is and as the playoffs loom pick up a good backup 5 cheaply.

[golden]

Lookie what I just posted on another site:

With the roster as it currently stands, and I expect another move or two is coming, here is what I would do:

Starters: Lowry-OG-Kawhi-Ibaka-JV
After 4 minutes: Green for Ibaka, OG to PF
At 10 minute mark: FVV-DW-CJM-PS-Ibaka
Up until 6 minutes into 2nd, then: Lowry-Green-Kawhi-OG-JV.
Repeat in 2nd half.

Final few minutes of the game would depend on closing matchups. Ibaka could sub back in at 4 or 5. FVV probably in for Green.

Makes for:
Lowry (32), FVV (16)
OG (8), Green (20), Wright (16), FVV (4)
Kawhi (32), Miles (16)
Ibaka (8), OG (24), Siakam (16)
JV (32), Ibaka (16)

That's a little off - Siakam probably takes a few minutes of OG's PF time. But otherwise, that's about as even a distribution of wing and guard minutes as I can figure. Odds are with any blowouts factored in the per game averages for the starters go down and the bench goes up, slightly.

Ibaka replacing Poeltl will just destroy the chemistry of the vaunted Bench Mob. Sergie is a certified ball stopper and has the worst BBIQ on the team.

[Bonus Jonas]

Why are you worried about Green's consistency but not Miles? Their %s last year were almost identical. Miles is a streaky player, and he doesn't give you anything other than shooting. At least Green plays D at a high level. Do you think Green will be a bad locker room guy? No reason to think that.

We are trying to contend, but it depends on what caliber of player they want. I think the likeliest route is the free agency route, but there are no real good options there.

Bebe is trash. We renounced him because he's not worth more than the minimum, and he's clearly had no real offers from other NBA teams. Maybe a couple of teams offered him minimum deals and he doesn't want to take them. He's a soft player in every sense, and makes pretty bad injury insurance since he tends to be injury prone himself. If I were him I'd look to go back to Spain for a year or two to try and improve.

Not a lot of names available. Monroe is still out there, but we probably can't offer him consistent minutes, especially with Serge around. West may decide to retire, and if not why would he come to Toronto instead of just going back to GSW (I assume they'd probably be ok bringing him back on a minimum deal)? He doesn't need to ring chase anymore, so I feel like he'd prefer a familiar situation in GSW or just retire.

Maybe instead of Bebe, look at a more physical player like Tarik Black? Maybe bring both and make sure you have a lot of Tums ready for when you have to watch them play?

Go into the season like that and then you can re-assess later on and see if you can trade a wing for a big if there is an option that makes sense. At which point Green might become the easiest piece to move since he's expiring, but it might still be better to keep him and try to trade Miles (or Norm if he gains any value).

I am worried about Miles’ consistency as well. Which is why it’s better to keep both. The more 3 point shooters the better.

Bebe being trash is a bit harsh. He does what he’s good at well and does what he’s not good at very poorly, but as the 4th big who will only get end of bench minutes he’s not a bad option. Especially since he’s familiar with the system and is known as a pass first guy.

I didn’t necessarily mean West himself, but a West type player. Haven’t looked at what’s left in FA but it’s not like we need this guy to move the needle. Whoever it is will almost certainly play no minutes in the playoffs and is only there for rest and injury insurance.

[Truth Teller]

Injury insurance

We’re a JV injury away from being in serious trouble

We can always try to get some FAs halfway through the season. A Greg Monroe big and a Belinelli type Guard.

[DanH]

Ibaka replacing Poeltl will just destroy the chemistry of the vaunted Bench Mob. Sergie is a certified ball stopper and has the worst BBIQ on the team.

There wasn't much sample as a full unit last year, but for example, the threesome of FVV, Siakam and Ibaka played to a +12 net rating in 60+ minutes. Other combinations of Ibaka and a couple bench player yield similar results. I'm not concerned about it.

[grindhouse]

Ibaka replacing Poeltl will just destroy the chemistry of the vaunted Bench Mob. Sergie is a certified ball stopper and has the worst BBIQ on the team.

IMO the era of offensive minded teams is over it should be defensive defensive and more defensive

[grindhouse]

I seen a interesting raptors line up which I want to modify a bit Lowry og Kawhi pascal JV. That’s probably our best 5 players on the team but I not sure why everyone thinks Kawhi can’t play SG and put OG at the 3? Instead of bench mob Cj or green come in for scoring. Fred comes in as the offensive point guard delon comes in as the defensive point. Ibaka back up center stretch 5 or comes in at the 4 to give pascal rest.

[Abbas]

Lookie what I just posted on another site:

With the roster as it currently stands, and I expect another move or two is coming, here is what I would do:

Starters: Lowry-OG-Kawhi-Ibaka-JV
After 4 minutes: Green for Ibaka, OG to PF
At 10 minute mark: FVV-DW-CJM-PS-Ibaka
Up until 6 minutes into 2nd, then: Lowry-Green-Kawhi-OG-JV.
Repeat in 2nd half.

Final few minutes of the game would depend on closing matchups. Ibaka could sub back in at 4 or 5. FVV probably in for Green.

Makes for:
Lowry (32), FVV (16)
OG (8), Green (20), Wright (16), FVV (4)
Kawhi (32), Miles (16)
Ibaka (8), OG (24), Siakam (16)
JV (32), Ibaka (16)

That's a little off - Siakam probably takes a few minutes of OG's PF time. But otherwise, that's about as even a distribution of wing and guard minutes as I can figure. Odds are with any blowouts factored in the per game averages for the starters go down and the bench goes up, slightly.

I like this but I feel that Lowry, JV And OG need to play about 2-5 minutes less
Instead, Wright plays about 5 minutes more, FVV about 3 minutes more and Pascal about 4 minutes more.

[DanH]

I like this but I feel that Lowry, JV And OG need to play about 2-5 minutes less
Instead, Wright plays about 5 minutes more, FVV about 3 minutes more and Pascal about 4 minutes more.

I'd probably look to suppress some OG minutes too, though I'd like JV at 30+. Lowry is fine at 32, especially since I expect a good number of blowout wins where our starters don't play the 4th.

I can see why we'd want more minutes for Siakam and Wright, and FVV will get more minutes (probably see a transitional lineup where you've got a frontcourt of Ibaka-Siakam-Kawhi with Fred and Delon near the end of the 1st and 3rd), but again, I'd want those higher energy bench guys below 24 MPG, especially Fred, who will be playing long-ish shifts when he does play. Remember a guy like Patterson ended up playing about 26 MPG, but because he came off the bench, he was always exhausted by the end of the game because he's playing 26 minutes compressed into the final 75% of each half. Don't want the same with Fred, as his shooting and energy is so important to his success.

Last year, Fred, Delon, Pascal and Miles all played between 19 and 21 MPG. That's about right, maybe with a few more minutes for Fred. And the planned rotational minutes will be lower, as that minute total will be inflated by those blowout games where the starters don't play the 4th. So planning 16-18 MPG for them, and about 20 for Fred, is about right.

I do think Serge should be kept to 24 MPG, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if he ended up closer to 26-28, with JV sliding down to 28-30.

[Mess]

I do wonder if JV could get 30+ min now that Casey is gone. Of course, whether he could be as effective playing 5-10 minutes more is the bigger question.

Anyway, this might be crazy, cause I know Norm was out of sight/out of mind last season, but how about starting him over Green? Green hasn't exactly been tearing it up over the last few seasons (injured and presumably healthy ones too) and he's 31. I'd definitely want him in for crunch time though.

I'd also like to see OG get some time on the second unit being the offensive focal point.

I think it's all going to be pretty fluid this year. The Bench Mob hockey subs may be a thing of the past.

Also, someone get a poll up about who you have more confidence in when they dribble: Green or PPat?

(though I guess you can put Norm and Serge in too, but they're not quite as bad)

[MixxAOR]

I do wonder if JV could get 30+ min now that Casey is gone. Of course, whether he could be as effective playing 5-10 minutes more is the bigger question.

Anyway, this might be crazy, cause I know Norm was out of sight/out of mind last season, but how about starting him over Green? Green hasn't exactly been tearing it up over the last few seasons (injured and presumably healthy ones too) and he's 31. I'd definitely want him in for crunch time though.

I'd also like to see OG get some time on the second unit being the offensive focal point.

I think it's all going to be pretty fluid this year. The Bench Mob hockey subs may be a thing of the past.

Also, someone get a poll up about who you have more confidence in when they dribble: Green or PPat?

(though I guess you can put Norm and Serge in too, but they're not quite as bad)

Powell needs to prove a lot before he can start over OG or Green

[Mess]

Oh of course. He'll have to earn it. But it's not impossible. He was everyone's darling two season ago.