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  • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
    Should be.. Lots and lots of playoff experience in the top 6 and then for the next 6 ....for the first time in about 3 years there are not a bunch guys coming off the bench that are rookies or first year guys.

    CJ is a vet...
    Norm is in his 4th year.
    FVV is going into his 3rd
    Delon his 4th.
    Pascal is his 3rd
    Only OG is a 2nd year guy.

    The biggest difference for me... is that for the first time in any playoff series the Raps have matched up in (post Vince Carter era) The Raps will have the best player in the series... in the East that's a pretty safe statement...

    If they get to the finals it might be a more robust debate.
    Well, in my opinion, I think experience based on years of being in the playoffs is a very surface-level argument.

    To me, it's how far they've gotten in each of those years. Serge, Green and Kawhi are the ones with real playoff experience in my opinion, all who have been to the Finals and/or won championships. They "know what it takes" to get there, so to speak.

    Like in 2016, the only guy who really cut the mold for me was Cojo. Who seemed to be the only consistent guy out of both the '16 and 17' playoff runs (from what I can remember, I could be wrong).
    Twitter: @ReubenJRD NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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    • ReubenJRD wrote: View Post
      Well, in my opinion, I think experience based on years of being in the playoffs is a very surface-level argument.

      To me, it's how far they've gotten in each of those years. Serge, Green and Kawhi are the ones with real playoff experience in my opinion, all who have been to the Finals and/or won championships.
      I'll disagree with you here. Any player who has been to the playoffs has had a chance, for at least four games, to see how the intensity moves up a notch, and has a chance to measure themselves against other guys. If they make it to the second round, same thing only more intense. If they get further, same deal. Getting to the finals is simply cranking it up a notch. All the playoff games are more intense than 95% of the regular season games. I believe that's all you need to know. That experience should let you know how much harder you have to prepare in the off season, and how much more game prep you need to win.

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      • Puffer wrote: View Post
        I'll disagree with you here. Any player who has been to the playoffs has had a chance, for at least four games, to see how the intensity moves up a notch, and has a chance to measure themselves against other guys. If they make it to the second round, same thing only more intense. If they get further, same deal. Getting to the finals is simply cranking it up a notch. All the playoff games are more intense than 95% of the regular season games. I believe that's all you need to know. That experience should let you know how much harder you have to prepare in the off season, and how much more game prep you need to win.
        I agree with what you're saying, they taste how different it is, they feel and move with the speed and the intensity that the playoffs are.

        However, thing is, what will you learn going to the first and second round year-in and year-out? What do you learn? Clearly you learn you're not good enough, and they haven't actually reached the point where they say it's a 50% chance of winning or losing, aside from the names I mentioned above.

        Getting to the playoffs, but not the Finals, to me, isn't the experience that tells me you know what it takes to win, because... you haven't gotten to the stage where you legitimately have the chance to compete for it.

        Maybe I'm being overly technical here. I'm not saying 10 years of playoff appearances isn't experience. But, the difference between that and a guy who has been to the finals a whole bunch of times and won it once or twice is huge. One knows what it takes to truly win and compete for the trophy, and one knows what it takes to get to a certain point in the postseason.

        I think the Raptors will be a much better team simply because they added Kawhi and Green, both who are proven commodities and contributors in this league, and elevate their games when it matters the most. They've been there and have done it, and will know what it takes.
        Twitter: @ReubenJRD NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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        • ReubenJRD wrote: View Post
          ..I think the Raptors will be a much better team simply because they added Kawhi and Green, both who are proven commodities and contributors in this league, and elevate their games when it matters the most. They've been there and have done it, and will know what it takes.
          Won't argue with that because it is obviously true. However I will point out that all the rotation young guys have had the experience of getting to the playoffs and failed. By all accounts they have improved significantly, potentially because they now know what it takes to win. I think in past years the Raptors had a talent deficit that was more important than finals or winning experience. And I think Casey was a bigger impact factor than their talent deficit, even though Casey had NBA championship experience.

          At any rate, Kawhi and Green have come along at the right time. Looking forward to this season.

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          • Puffer wrote: View Post
            Won't argue with that because it is obviously true. However I will point out that all the rotation young guys have had the experience of getting to the playoffs and failed. By all accounts they have improved significantly, potentially because they now know what it takes to win. I think in past years the Raptors had a talent deficit that was more important than finals or winning experience. And I think Casey was a bigger impact factor than their talent deficit, even though Casey had NBA championship experience.

            At any rate, Kawhi and Green have come along at the right time. Looking forward to this season.
            Can't argue with any of this either!

            As you said, talent is there, experience also there to supplement what they lacked last few years, and an open-minded, creative coach that will be less traditional and more modern with the play style.
            Twitter: @ReubenJRD NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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            • ReubenJRD wrote: View Post
              Can't argue with any of this either!

              As you said, talent is there, experience also there to supplement what they lacked last few years, and an open-minded, creative coach that will be less traditional and more modern with the play style.
              I'm not sure we will be better then last year. Kawhi came but Derozen left.. Anyway, we can still reach for the playoff finals.

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              • EthanHarris wrote: View Post
                I'm not sure we will be better then last year. Kawhi came but Derozen left.. Anyway, we can still reach for the playoff finals.
                Not sure how you don't recognize the huge disparity in talent that the trade represented. Kawhi claims, and others have corroborated, that he is operating at 100%. Green played over half the season with an undisclosed injury that has been corrected. DeMar and Jacob were both net negatives in the playoffs. Kawhi and Green are both net positives when playing uninjured, and especially show up in the playoffs.

                Loved DeMarr and liked Jacob, but only one team won that trade. Raps got better.

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                • I would have preferred Poeltl over Monroe but yeah that trade was a slam dunk by Masai. Kawhi is the better player and the team that gets the best player usually wins the trade. Green was just a bonus. My expectations are a bit low on him. I suspect more of a Carroll type season from him than a classic Danny Green season. But we have so much depth that it won't really hurt us too bad if he's underwhelming.

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                  • planetmars wrote: View Post
                    I would have preferred Poeltl over Monroe but yeah that trade was a slam dunk by Masai. Kawhi is the better player and the team that gets the best player usually wins the trade. Green was just a bonus. My expectations are a bit low on him. I suspect more of a Carroll type season from him than a classic Danny Green season. But we have so much depth that it won't really hurt us too bad if he's underwhelming.
                    Danny Green played 70 games with a groin tear. That didn't stop him from playing, but it assuredly affected his performance. With a minor groin tear you can adjust your motion and actions to guard the injury and partially compensate but you are not going to be able to do anything as well as you did before, from what I have read. His defensive mobility and his shooting would both be affected. Personally I am expecting a significant uptick in his performance. Having him thrown in on the deal was a huge steal. Masai and staff should be checking the league rosters for guys who have a sudden drop off in performance and no diagnosed injury. :-)

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                    • So an informal poll... As Gordon Hayward struggles out of the gate .. and yeah even though you don't read about it anywhere he has struggled mightily in the preseason so far. Think I'm kidding ? He's a robust 20% from the field.

                      Game 1: 2 of 7 in 23 minutes
                      Game 2: 1 of 7 in 21 minutes
                      Game 3: 2 0f 6 in 15 minutes
                      Game 4: DNP - Back Pain (it might be for the heavy minutes or it just might be that there is no need to run the big dogs in preseason.

                      So who is loving this more ?

                      Jazz fans: Jazz fans that hate Gord for leaving Utah and are using the "we can boo Gord like Toronto booed Vince for 15 years" corollary to revel in his sorta struggle so far in Boston.
                      or
                      Raps fans- one in particular Who revel in anything that shows there are pretty likely going to be some not so minor speedbumps on Bostons unopposed march to the conference title as per the NBA MSM..
                      Last edited by Demographic Shift; Wed Oct 10th, 2018, 04:32 PM.

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                      • planetmars wrote: View Post
                        I would have preferred Poeltl over Monroe but yeah that trade was a slam dunk by Masai. Kawhi is the better player and the team that gets the best player usually wins the trade. Green was just a bonus. My expectations are a bit low on him. I suspect more of a Carroll type season from him than a classic Danny Green season. But we have so much depth that it won't really hurt us too bad if he's underwhelming.
                        Agreed.

                        This is the thing, Green has already made an impact by just being on the roster. He's a locker room presence with a ton of experience from playing with LeBron prior to Heat years, to winning a chip alongside Kawhi with the Spurs' legendary trio.

                        Green has already shown how much opposing teams think or view him as a threat from the perimeter. I don't think he'll have the type of playing time that'll warrant him getting hate for being unproductive/not making a huge impact. But, he hasn't shown any poor play throughout a season, considering last year he was still alright with a torn groin.

                        Him being out there is productive already considering how well he shoots the ball and defends. He's a threat mentally for the opposition. Like Miles, even if they don't produce, teams will pay attention to them.
                        Twitter: @ReubenJRD NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

                        Comment


                        • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
                          So an informal poll... As Gordon Hayward struggles out of the gate .. and yeah even though you don't read about it anywhere he has struggled mightily in the preseason so far. Think I'm kidding ? He's a robust 20% from the field.

                          Game 1: 2 of 7 in 23 minutes
                          Game 2: 1 of 7 in 21 minutes
                          Game 3: 2 0f 6 in 15 minutes
                          Game 4: DNP - Back Pain (it might be for the heavy minutes or it just might be that there is no need to run the big dogs in preseason.

                          So who is loving this more ?

                          Jazz fans: Jazz fans that hate Gord for leaving Utah and are using the "we can boo Gord like Toronto booed Vince for 15 years" corollary to revel in his sorta struggle so far in Boston.
                          or
                          Raps fans- one in particular Who revel in anything that shows there are pretty likely going to be some not so minor speedbumps on Bostons unopposed march to the conference title as per the NBA MSM..
                          I'm not convinced at all that Hayward is better than what Boston got on the wings last season. They're deeper when everyone's healthy, they'll be incrementally better, but getting Gordon Hayward back is not like adding an, I don't know, an MVP runner up/Finals MVP/DPOY to your roster to take the minutes of a middling All-Star who only plays at one end and gets benched in the postseason.
                          "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                          • S.R. wrote: View Post
                            I'm not convinced at all that Hayward is better than what Boston got on the wings last season. They're deeper when everyone's healthy, they'll be incrementally better, but getting Gordon Hayward back is not like adding an, I don't know, an MVP runner up/Finals MVP/DPOY to your roster to take the minutes of a middling All-Star who only plays at one end and gets benched in the postseason.
                            Well.. they are in for 30M a season for the next 3 on Gord...
                            So I am thinking for this year anyway someone isn't going to be getting the time they think they deserve.
                            I have it Brown then Gord then Tatum on the depth chart. Have to see Jason do it one more year and this time with defenses giving him more attention than last year.

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                            • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
                              Well.. they are in for 30M a season for the next 3 on Gord...
                              So I am thinking for this year anyway someone isn't going to be getting the time they think they deserve.
                              I have it Brown then Gord then Tatum on the depth chart. Have to see Jason do it one more year and this time with defenses giving him more attention than last year.
                              Tatum is in a much higher tier than brown.
                              It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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                              • KeonClark wrote: View Post
                                Tatum is in a much higher tier than brown.
                                Yah I would honestly have it reversed. Tatum then Hayward then Brown. And I like Brown.

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