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  • G__Deane wrote: View Post
    Seriously? So you don't like valid contracts if the player suddenly doesn't feel like honouring it?
    Is Davis refusing to play? He's not refusing? Then he's honoring his contract. In fact, the opposite is true. The team doesn't want him to play so injury can't ruin his value.

    Is Davis wanting to be traded any worse than DeMar wanting to play the rest of his career here, but gets sent off for a shinier bauble.
    If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

    Comment


    • 3inthekeon wrote: View Post
      Is Davis wanting to be traded any worse than DeMar wanting to play the rest of his career here, but gets sent off for a shinier bauble.
      Yes, it is different. The team's ability to trade the player is part of the contract. So is the team's obligation to pay the player. So is the player's obligation to play for the team for X number of years. That's what they negotiate and put in the contract, both sides agree to those terms and conditions and sign on the dotted line.

      Can the team just decide to pay the player half as much halfway through the contract? Hell no. But apparently the player can just quit halfway through the contract. F the agreed terms I guess.

      There's definitely an upward trend in players "just wanting a good situation" mid-contract. At what point is it too much? How are teams supposed to build? Look at how Masai has timed everything around contracts. His whole plan would be thrown if a key guy (or two) halfway through decided he'd had enough.

      I've actually got slightly mixed feelings that our new star player is a guy who's done exactly this. What if the Raps do re-sign him long term then he quits two years into the new deal? What if they can't get good value for him and the whole project goes sideways? It it still all fine then, just the same as a team trading a player?

      Bunch of hypotheticals sure, but this trend is heading in the wrong direction.
      "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

      Comment


      • S.R. wrote: View Post
        Yes, it is different. The team's ability to trade the player is part of the contract. So is the team's obligation to pay the player. So is the player's obligation to play for the team for X number of years. That's what they negotiate and put in the contract, both sides agree to those terms and conditions and sign on the dotted line.

        Can the team just decide to pay the player half as much halfway through the contract? Hell no. But apparently the player can just quit halfway through the contract. F the agreed terms I guess.

        There's definitely an upward trend in players "just wanting a good situation" mid-contract. At what point is it too much? How are teams supposed to build? Look at how Masai has timed everything around contracts. His whole plan would be thrown if a key guy (or two) halfway through decided he'd had enough.

        I've actually got slightly mixed feelings that our new star player is a guy who's done exactly this. What if the Raps do re-sign him long term then he quits two years into the new deal? What if they can't get good value for him and the whole project goes sideways? It it still all fine then, just the same as a team trading a player?

        Bunch of hypotheticals sure, but this trend is heading in the wrong direction.
        Didn't ask if it was different, asked if it was worse. Of course it's different.

        When did Davis ever say he wouldn't play? He's playing and honoring his contract.
        If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

        Comment


        • 3inthekeon wrote: View Post
          Is Davis refusing to play? He's not refusing? Then he's honoring his contract. In fact, the opposite is true. The team doesn't want him to play so injury can't ruin his value.

          Is Davis wanting to be traded any worse than DeMar wanting to play the rest of his career here, but gets sent off for a shinier bauble.
          I thought we agreed bobbling was allowed?

          Comment


          • G__Deane wrote: View Post
            But not contracts say "we'll pay you $25M per year for 6 years ...... or until you're not happy
            The contract (generally) DOES say you can be traded.

            No different for Davis...he wants out..shut up, suck it up and honour your contract!
            We are just going to be on the opposite side of the table on this one...

            Comment


            • 3inthekeon wrote: View Post
              Didn't ask if it was different, asked if it was worse. Of course it's different.

              When did Davis ever say he wouldn't play? He's playing and honoring his contract.
              He's jacking airballs and walking out with fake injuries.

              Yeah it's worse.
              "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

              Comment


              • S.R. wrote: View Post
                He's jacking airballs and walking out with fake injuries.

                Yeah it's worse.
                So is it preferred for him to answer all questions pertaining to his upcoming FA by deferring until he has to make the choice? I fail to see how what he has done is worse for NO than him just leaving after his contract is done.

                Comment


                • Jangles wrote: View Post
                  So is it preferred for him to answer all questions pertaining to his upcoming FA by deferring until he has to make the choice? I fail to see how what he has done is worse for NO than him just leaving after his contract is done.
                  He has devalued his contract by affirming therein no way in hell he is going to resign. All other teams now know that they don't have to offer as much. He could have quietly told management that he was leaving and forced them to trade him without devaluing the contract. Maybe he did. But he hasn't claimed that. So I would say he wasn't acting in good faith.

                  Comment


                  • Jangles wrote: View Post
                    So is it preferred for him to answer all questions pertaining to his upcoming FA by deferring until he has to make the choice? I fail to see how what he has done is worse for NO than him just leaving after his contract is done.
                    I get the frustration with a losing organization. Who could blame Bosh for going to Miami instead of re-signing in Toronto?

                    Knowing this usually has nothing to do with reality, what "should" happen is one of a couple things:

                    - If there's no communication on the pending FA, the player and the team both play it out from their sides and deal with that when it comes. I mean AD still had a year and a half on his deal when he went public. Look how much the Raptors have changed in a year and a half. They could have done a lot in NO (admittedly they may not have the competency, which is probably what he's given up on.)
                    - The player can go to the team and tell them he's not planning to re-sign. As a Raptors fan I wish Bosh had done this.

                    I mean sure if a situation is really garbage I can see a player every now and then hitting the wall and demanding out, but it's happening more often, earlier in contracts, for whatever reason. Well not just for whatever reason, players playing GM behind the scenes is a big part of it.

                    Maybe it's a blip and doesn't keep getting worse, but it sure looks like a trajectory.

                    If players need more flexibility or empowerment, build it into the contracts. That's the solution that works for players, owners, and fans.
                    "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

                    Comment


                    • I do agree with Max Kellerman's point that the hometown bonuses of re-signing with the team that drafted you have gotten too big, a player has to choose between sticking with an organization that literally lucked into him through ping pong balls or going somewhere else virtually at his own expense - costs him millions of dollars to leave that team depending at which stage of his career. That's a bit weird and maybe giving too much leverage to incompetent teams that draft a top 5 guy and can't get better in 7 or 8 seasons. Then it's the player who loses millions if he goes somewhere else. Doesn't seem right to me.

                      Those increased hometown max contracts should be reduced. Let the team's pitch be that they're a great organization, not that they can buy the guy off for more $ than the other 29 teams. Let the team pay the consequences if they've got a great player and have failed to build something that would entice him to stay.
                      "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

                      Comment


                      • S.R. wrote: View Post
                        I get the frustration with a losing organization. Who could blame Bosh for going to Miami instead of re-signing in Toronto?

                        Knowing this usually has nothing to do with reality, what "should" happen is one of a couple things:

                        - If there's no communication on the pending FA, the player and the team both play it out from their sides and deal with that when it comes. I mean AD still had a year and a half on his deal when he went public. Look how much the Raptors have changed in a year and a half. They could have done a lot in NO (admittedly they may not have the competency, which is probably what he's given up on.)
                        - The player can go to the team and tell them he's not planning to re-sign. As a Raptors fan I wish Bosh had done this.

                        I mean sure if a situation is really garbage I can see a player every now and then hitting the wall and demanding out, but it's happening more often, earlier in contracts, for whatever reason. Well not just for whatever reason, players playing GM behind the scenes is a big part of it.

                        Maybe it's a blip and doesn't keep getting worse, but it sure looks like a trajectory.

                        If players need more flexibility or empowerment, build it into the contracts. That's the solution that works for players, owners, and fans.
                        The problem I have with player empowerment is that you're going to continue to see all these super teams in warm climate cities and it's going to be more and more difficult for the rest of the teams to compete. The competitive balance is already so off.

                        Comment


                        • 3inthekeon wrote: View Post
                          Is Davis refusing to play? He's not refusing? Then he's honoring his contract. In fact, the opposite is true. The team doesn't want him to play so injury can't ruin his value.

                          Is Davis wanting to be traded any worse than DeMar wanting to play the rest of his career here, but gets sent off for a shinier bauble.
                          How do you arrive at "Is Davis refusing to play"?
                          The point is that asking/demanding a trade is the middle of a valid contract is anything but honouring the contract, be serious. he fact that he doesn't want to lose $250,000 per game while demanding the trade hardly changes that. And if he plays but decides to sulk and play like crap, is that honouring the contract to you?

                          And of course Davis is different than DeMar. Davis is demanding to be traded in the midst of a valid contract while DeMar was traded against his wishes as a valid and legal part of HIS contract.

                          Keon, the fact you think either of these examples are the saem thing is bizarre.

                          Comment


                          • Puffer wrote: View Post
                            He has devalued his contract by affirming therein no way in hell he is going to resign. All other teams now know that they don't have to offer as much. He could have quietly told management that he was leaving and forced them to trade him without devaluing the contract. Maybe he did. But he hasn't claimed that. So I would say he wasn't acting in good faith.
                            DING DING DING! Yet they still wouldn't have been forced to look at trading him until after this season (with still a year left on his contract)

                            Comment


                            • LJ2 wrote: View Post
                              The problem I have with player empowerment is that you're going to continue to see all these super teams in warm climate cities and it's going to be more and more difficult for the rest of the teams to compete. The competitive balance is already so off.
                              I don't know about this.. I mean that's the case for players anyway that enter free agency. In this context its about being traded. I don't think Jimmy wanted to go to Philly (it wasn't on his list). Kawhi definitely didn't want to come to Toronto. So even though they both asked to leave early.. they didn't get to go where they wanted.

                              But, I don't think you can change the player empowerment. It's here and going to stay here. The NBA knows that the players (and mainly the super stars) are the reason why its a multi billion dollar corporation.

                              In the next CBA negotiations, why would the players agree to something that can prevent player movement? Unless the league is looking for another lock out I just don't see it.

                              Comment


                              • G__Deane wrote: View Post
                                How do you arrive at "Is Davis refusing to play"?
                                The point is that asking/demanding a trade is the middle of a valid contract is anything but honouring the contract, be serious. he fact that he doesn't want to lose $250,000 per game while demanding the trade hardly changes that. And if he plays but decides to sulk and play like crap, is that honouring the contract to you?

                                And of course Davis is different than DeMar. Davis is demanding to be traded in the midst of a valid contract while DeMar was traded against his wishes as a valid and legal part of HIS contract.

                                Keon, the fact you think either of these examples are the saem thing is bizarre.
                                And now your putting words in my mouth. I never said they were the same thing. I only asked which was worse. You and others have given your opinions on that. OK, that is your opinion and nothing I say will change that opinion. IMO he's still fulfilling the obligations of his contract by playing.

                                As for S. R.'s fake injury, if that's true, then you guys are correct. But you also have no way of knowing the truth and anyone here saying they do is spouting total B.S.in an attempt to further their point.

                                As Puffer noted, if it should been done in private, It was a classless move on his part having Paul spout it to the media. But those are two separate issues.
                                If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

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