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  • Bucks are a solid bet based on their regular season. Main bets against them are historical:

    - Teams virtually never go from a first round out to winning a ring
    - One star teams very rarely win a ring

    They'd be bucking a couple trends if they pulled it off.
    "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

    Comment


    • S.R. wrote: View Post
      Bucks are a solid bet based on their regular season. Main bets against them are historical:

      - Teams virtually never go from a first round out to winning a ring
      - One star teams very rarely win a ring

      They'd be bucking a couple trends if they pulled it off.
      Warriors did exactly that under Kerr.

      Comment


      • golden wrote: View Post

        Warriors did exactly that under Kerr.
        Yeah I don't think the Bucks are on the same level as the Warriors, do you?

        See bullet two above.
        "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

        Comment


        • S.R. wrote: View Post

          Yeah I don't think the Bucks are on the same level as the Warriors, do you?

          See bullet two above.
          Compared to that year? For sure. Who was the second star on the Warriors that year? Klay & Draymond were on the same level as Bledsoe and Middleton, in terms of complimentary "stars". Rest of the Bucks supporting cast this year is arguably much better than the Warriors that year.

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          • golden wrote: View Post

            Compared to that year? For sure. Who was the second star on the Warriors that year? Klay & Draymond were on the same level as Bledsoe and Middleton, in terms of complimentary "stars". Rest of the Bucks supporting cast this year is arguably much better than the Warriors that year.
            Don't do this golden! Shouldn't even be a discussion.

            First off, GS doesn't really qualify they were a 2nd round team the year prior and the 1st round out was a disappointment and a big reason Jackson lost his job. GS was a 67 win team, Miwaukee on pace for 62 in the EC. GS #1 and #2 league wide ORTG and DRTG. Milwaukee #5 and #1. The two "early playoff exit" seasons prior to a ring, GS also won more games than Milwaukee has past couple of years. GS was flat out just a better team by pretty much any metric you want to pull up.

            As far as start power, GS in 14/15:
            - Curry = All-NBA 1st team, MVP, All-Star
            - Draymond = All-NBA 1st Defensive
            - Klay = All-Star, All-NBA 3rd team, 10 MVP votes
            - Iggy = Finals MVP, season prior was All-NBA 1st Defensive

            Bucks have nowhere close to that kind of top end depth. Middleton? The guy is basically Harrison Barnes with a better 3 pt shot who made his first All-Star game at age 27 because of Giannis. He's the Miwaukee equivalent of 4 Hawks getting voted in.

            Those Warriors were one season away from a league record 73 wins with essentially the same roster. You are telling me you actually see this level of talent in the Bucks?
            "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

            Comment


            • S.R. wrote: View Post

              Don't do this golden! Shouldn't even be a discussion.

              First off, GS doesn't really qualify they were a 2nd round team the year prior and the 1st round out was a disappointment and a big reason Jackson lost his job. GS was a 67 win team, Miwaukee on pace for 62 in the EC. GS #1 and #2 league wide ORTG and DRTG. Milwaukee #5 and #1. The two "early playoff exit" seasons prior to a ring, GS also won more games than Milwaukee has past couple of years. GS was flat out just a better team by pretty much any metric you want to pull up.

              As far as start power, GS in 14/15:
              - Curry = All-NBA 1st team, MVP, All-Star
              - Draymond = All-NBA 1st Defensive
              - Klay = All-Star, All-NBA 3rd team, 10 MVP votes
              - Iggy = Finals MVP, season prior was All-NBA 1st Defensive

              Bucks have nowhere close to that kind of top end depth. Middleton? The guy is basically Harrison Barnes with a better 3 pt shot who made his first All-Star game at age 27 because of Giannis. He's the Miwaukee equivalent of 4 Hawks getting voted in.

              Those Warriors were one season away from a league record 73 wins with essentially the same roster. You are telling me you actually see this level of talent in the Bucks?
              Giannis will be the MVP - we know that already, but even so, those All-whatever teams are highly subjective. Kobe won about 5-6 more all-defense selections than he should have. Barnes and Middleton are no comparison whatsoever, in terms of usage, impact and roles on both ends of the floor. Middleton has been an analytics darling (like Draymond) for years, whereas Barnes is exactly the opposite. And Bledsoe would have been selected an all-star over Lowry if the Raps had fewer wins and the Bucks didn't have 2 already. His winning impact is right up there with Lowry and he's a better individual scorer and defender. And when you get to the rest of the lineup, Lopez and Brogdon are also top 10 in impact at their positions.

              But rather than going player by player, the point I'm trying to make here is that the Bucks overall situation is very similar to the Dubs: an underacheiving team with a potential MVP and tons of talent that is unlocked by a new coach & new system.

              Sure, people keep bringing up Bud's fool's gold 60-win Hawks (and I'm hoping that's true), but people forget that half the eastern conference was proactively tanking at the time and he didn't have a talent like Giannis and they ran up against peak Lebron. The Bucks regular season net rating against > .500 teams is the best argument for them. They've beaten top teams in the regular season and they've beaten them convincingly (apparently on par with the 72-win Bulls and the 73-win Dubs).

              It's a legitimate discussion, not to be easily dismissed by history, when in fact recent history actually supports them. Sure, they're not exactly the 14-15 Warriors, but they're the closest things to Warriors of the east. Bucks have had a charmed season. Good thing is that the east will be a bloodbath and by the time we face them, they could finally be facing some adversity (like injuries or some exploitable flaws in Bud's system exposed).
              Last edited by golden; Wed Mar 13, 2019, 10:54 AM.

              Comment


              • Well them not likely winning a championship doesn't solve the problem that they might come out the East though.
                Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

                Comment


                • What I find is unique in the NBA is the fixation of both the media who cover it and the fans who follow it is the attention paid by both fans and media on whats going to happen next year. Who is leaving. Who is staying. Which teams might be good next year. Which teams might be bad.

                  Every other major sport.. be it the NFL, the NHL or MLB has its fans focused on who is going to win the whole enchilada this year. Not next year .This year. The future is now mentality pervades those sports moreso than the NBA. The NBA devotes much headspace to which team will be relevant in free agency... which team is going to have a great draft slot. .. which team might be good in a couple of years.

                  So without googling it.. .ask yourself which team won the NBA championship two years ago.. and which team had the MVP two years ago.. or who had the most cap space... or who was angling for a top 3 draft pick to change their situatition forever. I am pretty sure most know the Warriors won the championship.. I am equally sure you'd have to google who the MVP was or the rest of those questions.
                  Last edited by Demographic Shift; Wed Mar 13, 2019, 11:45 AM.

                  Comment


                  • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
                    What I find is unique in the NBA is the fixation of both the media who cover it and the fans who follow it is the attention paid by both fans and media on whats going to happen next year. Who is leaving. Who is staying. Which teams might be good next year. Which teams might be bad.

                    Every other major sport.. be it the NFL, the NHL or MLB has its fans focused on who is going to win the whole enchilada this year. Not next year .This year. The future is now mentality pervades those sports moreso than the NBA. The NBA devotes much headspace to which team will be relevant in free agency... which team is going to have a great draft slot. .. which team might be good in a couple of years.

                    So without googling it.. .ask yourself which team won the NBA championship two years ago.. and which team had the MVP two years ago.. or who had the most cap space... or who was angling for a top 3 draft pick to change their situatition forever. I am pretty sure most know the Warriors won the championship.. I am equally sure you'd have to google who the MVP was or the rest of those questions.
                    Elite player movement is more relevant in the NBA because one guy going back to Cleveland can screw over an entire conference. And one guy joining a 73-win team can screw over the entire league. Even if it's not Lebron or KD, one guy can still make a huge difference to an NBA franchise. Guesses to your questions, 2 years ago:

                    Chip: Warriors
                    MVP: Westbrook
                    Most cap space: Sixers or Nets (wild guesses)



                    Comment


                    • MixxAOR wrote: View Post
                      Well them not likely winning a championship doesn't solve the problem that they might come out the East though.
                      It's not a problem, it's a challenge. Nobody thought it would be easy. I'm excited for round 1, 2 and eventually, Milwaukee!
                      It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

                      Comment


                      • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
                        What I find is unique in the NBA is the fixation of both the media who cover it and the fans who follow it is the attention paid by both fans and media on whats going to happen next year. Who is leaving. Who is staying. Which teams might be good next year. Which teams might be bad.

                        Every other major sport.. be it the NFL, the NHL or MLB has its fans focused on who is going to win the whole enchilada this year. Not next year .This year. The future is now mentality pervades those sports moreso than the NBA. The NBA devotes much headspace to which team will be relevant in free agency... which team is going to have a great draft slot. .. which team might be good in a couple of years.

                        So without googling it.. .ask yourself which team won the NBA championship two years ago.. and which team had the MVP two years ago.. or who had the most cap space... or who was angling for a top 3 draft pick to change their situatition forever. I am pretty sure most know the Warriors won the championship.. I am equally sure you'd have to google who the MVP was or the rest of those questions.
                        What else is unique to the nba? Only 4, sometimes 3 hell sometimes one team has an actual chance. The rest? "Building" for next year. Its actually kind of weird so many people stay captivated in a league where 90% of the teams have less than 0 chance of winning the trophy, but that's exactly why coverage is so geared towards "hope for tomorrow"
                        It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

                        Comment


                        • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
                          What I find is unique in the NBA is the fixation of both the media who cover it and the fans who follow it is the attention paid by both fans and media on whats going to happen next year. Who is leaving. Who is staying. Which teams might be good next year. Which teams might be bad.

                          Every other major sport.. be it the NFL, the NHL or MLB has its fans focused on who is going to win the whole enchilada this year. Not next year .This year. The future is now mentality pervades those sports moreso than the NBA. The NBA devotes much headspace to which team will be relevant in free agency... which team is going to have a great draft slot. .. which team might be good in a couple of years.

                          So without googling it.. .ask yourself which team won the NBA championship two years ago.. and which team had the MVP two years ago.. or who had the most cap space... or who was angling for a top 3 draft pick to change their situatition forever. I am pretty sure most know the Warriors won the championship.. I am equally sure you'd have to google who the MVP was or the rest of those questions.
                          The NBA chatter will put more emphasis on "who's gonna be good in the next couple of years" instead of the present if those teams are the Lakers/Knicks/76ers/Celtics. If these these teams are good now, the focus is on the "now". If they're bad now, the focus shifts to the future. In other words, the sad sack of the NBA hype machine always focus on these teams (at least until you have a dominant force like the Warriors that forces them otherwise, and even then I still hear just about as much re Philly then about them somehow)
                          2019 NBA Champions. Glad to have doubted the doubters.

                          Comment


                          • golden wrote: View Post

                            Elite player movement is more relevant in the NBA because one guy going back to Cleveland can screw over an entire conference. And one guy joining a 73-win team can screw over the entire league. Even if it's not Lebron or KD, one guy can still make a huge difference to an NBA franchise. Guesses to your questions, 2 years ago:

                            Chip: Warriors
                            MVP: Westbrook
                            Most cap space: Sixers or Nets (wild guesses)


                            You googled

                            All I am bringing up for discussion is the unique fixation amongst major pro sports league that the NBA has on " next year"
                            ....
                            Right now in the NHL (the other league in the same point in time in its season) its all about who is going to win the cup.. not who has cap space.. who is the next phenom thats getting a skate deal and who is going to change the future of an entire league...who is a UFA ... The NBA is masterful at selling futures and hope to suckers....of which there are many.

                            NYC. Phoenix..LA Lakers ...are perennial suspects in draft lottery talk and cap space machinations...

                            Fair ?
                            Last edited by Demographic Shift; Wed Mar 13, 2019, 12:58 PM.

                            Comment


                            • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post

                              You googled

                              All I am bringing up for discussion is the unique fixation amongst major pro sports league that the NBA has on " next year"
                              ....
                              Right now in the NHL (the other league in the same point in time in its season) its all about who is going to win the cup.. not who has cap space.. who is the next phenom thats getting a skate deal and who is going to change the future of an entire league...who is a UFA ... The NBA is masterful at selling futures and hope to suckers....of which there are many in NYC. Phoenix..LA Lakers ...the perennial suspects in the draft lottery talk and cap space machinations...

                              Fair ?
                              You know who has a shot in hockey? Every stinkin team that gets in the April dance... You think they're getting excited in Brooklyn or Orlando for a hot streak run into June?
                              It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

                              Comment


                              • .. ..
                                KeonClark wrote: View Post

                                You know who has a shot in hockey? Every stinkin team that gets in the April dance... You think they're getting excited in Brooklyn or Orlando for a hot streak run into June?
                                Yes.. thats true... but Hockey unlike the NBA.. the NHL needs more than two guys to win it all...
                                There is more than one instance of team landing in the 8 slot that has gone on to a long run on Lord Stanleys chase... and your right..in the NBA that just doesn't happen ..

                                BUt the media that covers the NHL and the fans that follow it.. .are all about winning this year... In the NBA... I'd throw up on the wall that almost half the media and fan bases are obsessed with the off season and what it might bring. The NBA draft is a bigger story than the first round of their playoffs. Free Agency in July is bigger than the conference finals....

                                Its an observation... not a criticism.

                                And just for the hell of it Clarkie.... if your hometown Calgary Flames get any goaltending.. its between the Flames ...San Jose ...Vegas (who has goaltending) and Winnipeg (who has everything but goaltening) to come out of the West.

                                Myl Leafs don't have enough sandpaper up and down the lineup ot get out the first round...

                                And no one.. is going to get Tampa this year.. saw them live last night... they have it all... from the crease to the faceoff dot... these guys are loaded.
                                Last edited by Demographic Shift; Wed Mar 13, 2019, 01:10 PM.

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