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  • #16
    I do think that anyone not considering the Raptors an 'elite' team will quickly realize just how long and athletic and deep they really are. Those that give Boston the clear edge are trying to handicap our depth and defense against their 'starpower'. The reasonable position is to have us in the same tier until the games start being played - their depth and defense are likewise nothing to sneeze at.

    But neither is our...superstarpower! (and that's why you role the dice on Leonard )

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    • #17
      SkywalkerAC wrote: View Post
      I do think that anyone not considering the Raptors an 'elite' team will quickly realize just how long and athletic and deep they really are. Those that give Boston the clear edge are trying to handicap our depth and defense against their 'starpower'. The reasonable position is to have us in the same tier until the games start being played - their depth and defense are likewise nothing to sneeze at.

      But neither is our...superstarpower! (and that's why you role the dice on Leonard )
      To be honest, here, I'm not sure how they have less depth than us? They were carried by rookies last year and made it to ECF, gave Lebron Cavaliers more trouble than Raptors without two of their main stars (starpower). They are legitametely placed at the first seed by journalists because they've proven it with results, we haven't proven anything yet so it makes sense Raptors are behind them on paper.
      Official Pope of the Raptors sponsored by MLSE.

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      • #18
        RandomGuy wrote: View Post
        To be honest, here, I'm not sure how they have less depth than us? They were carried by rookies last year and made it to ECF, gave Lebron Cavaliers more trouble than Raptors without two of their main stars (starpower). They are legitametely placed at the first seed by journalists because they've proven it with results, we haven't proven anything yet so it makes sense Raptors are behind them on paper.
        Well, I definitely disagree with that logic.

        If we traded for Durant, Steph, Kawhi and LeBron, would it make sense to put Boston ahead of us because they've proven more? The whole point of these pre-season rankings is to project what will happen this season. If it was just based on how proven each team is, they should just list last year's standings and be done with it.

        There may be good reasons to put Boston 1st (personally, I don't think so), but it ain't that reason.
        twitter.com/dhackett1565

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        • #19
          DanH wrote: View Post
          Well, I definitely disagree with that logic.

          If we traded for Durant, Steph, Kawhi and LeBron, would it make sense to put Boston ahead of us because they've proven more? The whole point of these pre-season rankings is to project what will happen this season. If it was just based on how proven each team is, they should just list last year's standings and be done with it.

          There may be good reasons to put Boston 1st (personally, I don't think so), but it ain't that reason.
          At the same point I was trying to bring up that they were missing Kyrie and Gordon Hayward, two first-tier stars, which when combined bring as much value as Kawhi. Meanwhile, we brought a superstar to our team, yes, but it was an addition by subtraction (a good one though). Not even to mention all of the random factors, such as will Lowry and Kawhi be motivated? Will the new coach work out, etc... Success of Boston Celtics is much more predictable and certain. Meanwhile we can be another "project" where a star switches the team and it doesn't pan out (e.g. Lakers, Thunder, last years Cavs, etc.). In the end this influences the opinion, it's not just a white sheet of paper with bunch of names in front of you. Even if that's the case Boston still is in the conversation for being placed at 1st seed.
          Last edited by RandomGuy; Thu Aug 16, 2018, 10:03 AM.
          Official Pope of the Raptors sponsored by MLSE.

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          • #20
            RandomGuy wrote: View Post
            To be honest, here, I'm not sure how they have less depth than us? They were carried by rookies last year and made it to ECF, gave Lebron Cavaliers more trouble than Raptors without two of their main stars (starpower). They are legitametely placed at the first seed by journalists because they've proven it with results, we haven't proven anything yet so it makes sense Raptors are behind them on paper.
            If both teams are healthy the East's top seed is up for grabs by either Boston or Toronto. I don't think there is a clear #1 even though I believe in the Raptors.

            Just looking at the projected match-up's:
            Lowry vs Irving - Lowry will have to provide just as much scoring punch as Irving..not an easy task. Advantage Boston?

            OG vs Brown - I think you might consider putting OG on Brown here because Brown is probably going to be one of their least offensive threats among starters and you could reserve Kawhi for guarding their SF. OG vs Brown is probably a wash.

            Kawhi vs Hayward - Advantage Raptors

            Serge vs Tatum - Not really sure if Boston is going to roll with Tatum at PF, but they have a bit of a log jam with their wings. Either one of Brown, Hayward or Tatum would have to come off the bench if they want a more traditional big man at PF. Nurse may want to try Siakam for this particular match-up. Either way, advantage Boston

            JV vs Horford - I want to say advantage goes to the Raptors. JV is the bigger, stronger and the younger player. I think their roles relegate this match up to being a wash

            Then you have to look at their benches which is probably also a wash

            Boston - Rozier, Smart, Morris, Baynes are the notables
            Toronto - FVV, Wright, Green, Siakam or Serge, Moose

            It's not an easy match up.

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            • #21
              RandomGuy wrote: View Post
              To be honest, here, I'm not sure how they have less depth than us? They were carried by rookies last year and made it to ECF, gave Lebron Cavaliers more trouble than Raptors without two of their main stars (starpower).
              That's why I said it makes sense to have us in the same tier - they also have great depth and defense. Their young guys played so well, it will be hard for Hayward to to move the needle. You might give them the edge to come out of the East based on recent history, but when it comes to predicting who will have the number one seed after the regular season (which I believe is what most of these rankings try to do), we've proven just as much.

              With regards to the playoffs, we just picked up a quintessential playoff performer. While they are getting back one guy who struggles staying healthy for the playoffs and another who has played a total of 15 playoff games.
              Last edited by SkywalkerAC; Thu Aug 16, 2018, 11:54 AM.

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              • #22
                SkywalkerAC wrote: View Post
                That's why I said it makes sense to have us in the same tier - they also have great depth and defense. Their young guys played so well, it will be hard for Hayward to to move the needle. You might give them the edge to come out of the East based on recent history, but when it comes to predicting who will have the number one seed after the regular season (which I believe is what most of these rankings try to do), we've proven just as much.

                With regards to the playoffs, we just picked up a quintessential playoff performer. While they are getting back one guy who struggles staying healthy for the playoffs and another who has played a total of 15 playoff games.
                Good points, my bad, somehow managed to misinterpret what you've meant regarding the depth.
                Official Pope of the Raptors sponsored by MLSE.

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                • #23
                  Lowry plus bench has created some really good second unit line-up's for us. Which bench unit + 1 starter do you guys think are going to be most successful for us this season?

                  Lowry
                  FVV
                  Green
                  Siakam
                  Monroe

                  Oh man, what if the Kawhi + bench player line-up's are going to be equally as good?! Maybe not as good as the Lowry ones but certainly better than the DeMar with bench line-up's.

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                  • #24
                    DanH wrote: View Post
                    Well, I definitely disagree with that logic.

                    If we traded for Durant, Steph, Kawhi and LeBron, would it make sense to put Boston ahead of us because they've proven more? The whole point of these pre-season rankings is to project what will happen this season. If it was just based on how proven each team is, they should just list last year's standings and be done with it.

                    There may be good reasons to put Boston 1st (personally, I don't think so), but it ain't that reason.
                    Leonard >> Irving
                    Lowry > Hayward
                    Jv < Horford (barely)
                    Fvv << tatum

                    And from 5 thru 12 its really not close, Raptors all day
                    It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      KeonClark wrote: View Post
                      Leonard >> Irving
                      Lowry > Hayward
                      Jv < Horford (barely)
                      Fvv << tatum

                      And from 5 thru 12 its really not close, Raptors all day
                      Brown, Rozier, Smart, Morris are pretty good players.

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                      • #26
                        LJ2 wrote: View Post
                        Brown, Rozier, Smart, Morris are pretty good players.
                        So are siakam, anunoby, green and Ibaka. And then you're left with baynes and whoever is #10 to compare to Wright and miles.
                        It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          LJ2 wrote: View Post
                          Lowry plus bench has created some really good second unit line-up's for us. Which bench unit + 1 starter do you guys think are going to be most successful for us this season?

                          Lowry
                          FVV
                          Green
                          Siakam
                          Monroe

                          Oh man, what if the Kawhi + bench player line-up's are going to be equally as good?! Maybe not as good as the Lowry ones but certainly better than the DeMar with bench line-up's.
                          This is my line of thinking:

                          VanVleet-Wright-Kawhi-Siakam-Monroe/Serge (assuming he comes off the bench) will wreak a ton of havoc on the defensive end, especially on the perimeter. This will also prevent going ultra-small with VanVleet-Lowry-Wright which I did not particular like and (if i'm not mistaken) was used quite a bit last season.

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                          • #28
                            KeonClark wrote: View Post
                            So are siakam, anunoby, green and Ibaka. And then you're left with baynes and whoever is #10 to compare to Wright and miles.
                            I assume Ojeleye, and he was solid last year.

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                            • #29
                              Looking at the projected depth chart:

                              Lowry/Vanvleet/Brown
                              Green/Wright/Powell
                              Kawhi/Miles
                              OG/Siakam
                              JV/Serge/Monroe

                              The Raptors are good enough to go 12-deep, all of them at the very least serviceable -- Powell is probably at the end of the food chain in my opinion, and even he is a #7 or #8 on other team's depth charts.

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                              • #30
                                ReubenJRD wrote: View Post
                                This is my line of thinking:

                                VanVleet-Wright-Kawhi-Siakam-Monroe/Serge (assuming he comes off the bench) will wreak a ton of havoc on the defensive end, especially on the perimeter. This will also prevent going ultra-small with VanVleet-Lowry-Wright which I did not particular like and (if i'm not mistaken) was used quite a bit last season.
                                I like the defensive versatility from that line-up, but I think it puts a lot of focus on Kawhi scoring the ball or initiating the offence. I'd rather have Green there in place of VanVleet or Wright for a bit more punch on offence. That way Kawhi doesn't have to work so hard the whole time he's out there. Just my take.

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