Time to scrap the bench mob

[S.R.]

The starting stuff...

Last year this team had only two guys over 30 mpg in Lowry and DD. It'll be the same this year with Lowry and Kawhi. After that, i expect Ibaka's minutes to drop over the previous year's and JV's to go up (from seeing his development and hearing what Nurse is saying), but including those guys you have 8 players getting 18-27 mpg just like last year which seems about right (last year 5 of them were right at 20 mpg).

At this rate Powell is still the odd man out. I'm pretty worried he got big contract by looking really good in a really small sample size and he just lucked out.

[GLF]

Starting your best players isn't always the right move. That's such a simplistic and dumb solution. Sometimes it makes more sense to start a better defender and bring a guy off the bench, or even just bring a guy off the bench to stagger his touches better with two superior offensive weapons (like Harden in OKC for example).

LOL I truly can't believe after watching all of last season and these first two preseason games you're STILL on the Serge should start over JV bandwagon. I will never understand your logic with this lol. Serge at this point in his career isn't even a better defender than JV by much if at all. He might block a shot here and there but JV is soooooooooo much better than him in every other category you could think of that his shot blocking to me means nothing. Now if we had shot blocking Serge from his OKC days THEN we would be talking. JV is the better player and the better fit by far and it's not even remotely close at this point. I think it's clear as day but to each their own I guess.

[sanyo]

Serge will be spending half the season on the DL anyways.

[KeonClark]

Serge will be spending half the season on the DL anyways.

Why? Hes been very durable for his career

[rocwell]

Why? Hes been very durable for his career

[Scraptor]

I guess we need something to argue about now that DD's gone.

Nurse said that six guys could start and he'd rotate through them... I fully expect that to be the case this season.

[Puffer]

So...we're NOT scrapping the bench mob?

[DogeLover1234]

Leonard, lowry and JV are the obvious starters for me. My guess is serge gets the nod at PF most nights, but i expect his minutes to fluctuate quite a bit depending on matchups and how he is playing on any given night. I'd prefer pascal, but his shooting just isnt there yet. The real question mark for me is SG. I dont think green is the answer but he might be servicable enough, but i think he is on the decline. Still a valuable player to have and i fully expect him to have an impact on this team. OG could start if it made sense to put kawhi at the 2. Not really sure about that though, doesnt seem like that would get much consideration. So its either powell or delon for me at the 2, and i'd be inclined to give norm another shot at it. If he regains his form, he would be ideal, off ball threat with some slashing and finishing ability, as well as a plus defender.

Interesting that Miles has started both games. I would still be inclined to agree with you, but I wonder if thats at all cause Nurse wants to start OG at the 4. Might be reading into it too much, and I imagine its more to test how 1 big lineups look, but interesting.

[Mitch P]

I don't understand any argument for Serge to be an every night starter at C. I guess I can see why it might make sense in the very few matchups where JV will struggle to hang with a top notch shooting C, to start Ibaka, but he is not remotely a starting C in this league. He'll be fouling out of every game, and if not, just giving up offensive boards all over the place.

There's a simple answer here people: start your best players, and use role players around them that make sense. The characterization of JV being among the mess of role players is way off, IMO. Lowry, Leonard and JV are the three best players on the team. They complement each others' games perfectly. So start them. Then find role players to plug around them based on the opposition or just general fit with those pieces.

The bench will be fine. The bench has largely been fine with Ibaka or JV, with the exception of the third Q last night when they ran up against Utah's starters (who by the way were one of the few starting lineups close to as good as our starting lineup last year, with a +10 net rating in over 500 minutes - one of only 5 units with 400+ MP to be that good). We've got a full season of bench dominance to convince us the bench will be fine, and they've got multiple options at several positions on any night they struggle (FVV and Wright as guards, Miles and Green on the wing, Siakam, Ibaka, Monroe as bigs).

Oh, and Monroe starting should be out of the question unless there are injuries.

So glad to see that one of the most intelligent, articulate posters here agrees with me that JV is one of our "big three". His performance in these first two (albeit meaningless) games confirms what was evident last season. I believe JV should always start as he is difficult for many of the smaller 5s to defend in the paint....which often more than makes up for his lack of mobility to defend on the periphery. Casey (or Lowry) would often seem to forget about JV after the first 6 minutes of the game and not take advantage of his ability to punish the smaller defenders. Hopefully Nurse won't let that happen. Kawhi played with Duncan who was not unlike JV in many ways (I'm not saying JV is that good of course) and has looked comfortable with him so far. This will be a VERY interesting and I think exciting season.

[Puffer]

So glad to see that one of the most intelligent, articulate posters here agrees with me that JV is one of our "big three". His performance in these first two (albeit meaningless) games confirms what was evident last season. I believe JV should always start as he is difficult for many of the smaller 5s to defend in the paint...

I think a majority of the posters here have always thought JV was a very good player being used improperly for years. "Playoff" JV has shown what he was capable of if given the opportunity. JV's detractors have seemed more numerous than they actually are because of the number and volume of their posts.

Glad to see Nurse using JV properly. And it helps, as you suggest, that a couple of new guys are suddenly on the team and have a chance to play with him without knowing what his role card is.

[Nilanka]

Starting your best players isn't always the right move. That's such a simplistic and dumb solution. Sometimes it makes more sense to start a better defender and bring a guy off the bench, or even just bring a guy off the bench to stagger his touches better with two superior offensive weapons (like Harden in OKC for example).

[KeonClark]

Zig when they zag!

[DanH]

Here's an idea. Let's apply the logic some people apply to JV to all the other best players on the team. Sure, Kawhi is awesome against starters, but imagine him playing against bench players? Heck, we have a long history of Lowry dominating bench players.

So here's the plan. We start the bench unit. We hope they hold their own. Then we bring in the nominal starters off the bench and blow teams out. Bam. Perfect plan.

[S.R.]

Here's an idea. Let's apply the logic some people apply to JV to all the other best players on the team. Sure, Kawhi is awesome against starters, but imagine him playing against bench players? Heck, we have a long history of Lowry dominating bench players.

So here's the plan. We start the bench unit. We hope they hold their own. Then we bring in the nominal starters off the bench and blow teams out. Bam. Perfect plan.

I like where this is going, it's like the club in Night at the Roxbury. We make the inside the outside so everybody can get in. Perfect.

[ReubenJRD]

I think there's a ton of overthinking, and/or taking it to the extreme with the topic.

We've seen two preseason games, and all of a sudden the bench mob has to be scrapped?

I initially proposed the idea of starting Ibaka, which I do still like, with JV coming off the bench, because he can easily be plugged into any given lineup. His effectiveness comes as a consistent scoring option. VanVleet-Wright-Miles-Siakam is great when they're feeding off momentum, playing with pace, but when the game slows down, they lack a scoring threat and struggle to find interior offence, especially if that ball isn't hopping around.

But, it also makes sense to start JV, just because he's the team's best big, he's effective with Lowry, and seems to be developing a nice chemistry with Kawhi on the floor. I mean, it can easily be managed to have JV play with the bench, and vice versa.

On opening night, I'd like to see a lineup of Lowry-Green-Leonard-OG-JV, and stagger minutes with Ibaka at the 5.

I also doubt we'll see the traditional hockey lineups like many of you said. I think I'll make a semi-bold prediction and assume Nurse is going to have one of Kawhi/Lowry on the floor at all times, if not together at all times.

Some consistencies I expect to see are:

- VanVleet and Siakam
- Lowry and Kawhi

Everything else is really up in the air.

I'm excited about what we're going to see in terms of rotations, we still haven't seen OG due to his absence, and that's going to be fun seeing him out there with Kawhi.