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Who Has a Harder Time Integrating Two New Starters? Boston or Toronto?

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  • KeonClark
    replied
    white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    Yeah, Boston's pecking order is much more obvious. The only real issue is getting enough for Hayward, Brown and Tatum. Boston has a very obvious top 5 in terms of talent. If it really seems too hard to get everyone touches in the starting unit, all he has to do is something like move Hayward to the bench to add a scorer there, and bring in a defender like Smart to the starting lineup.

    Toronto is a lot more muddled. As Nurse said, we have 6 guys who are proven starters (OG only had 1 year, but he looked like an ideal role playing starter at the very least). Then we have FVV who plays the 6th man and needs minutes. Then we have Pascal who we're hoping makes a nice leap this year and is getting closer to looking like a starter. I'd even add that Wright also is talented/versatile enough that it's not hard to see him starting in the right situation. And for us while Lowry and Leonard are clearly our top-tier offensive guys, the skills/roles of everyone below them are a lot more mixed up than Boston.

    Then throw in that there is a positional crunch at the wings and at C, with Nurse trying to just use 1 big at a time and maximize the perimeter depth we have. I would say Stevens has a much easier job trying to sort his rotation and roles.
    Agreed. They have a clear big 5 that need 30 min each. We have a big 2 and then a pretty big 6

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  • white men can't jump
    replied
    S.R. wrote: View Post
    Through the first 3 games we have exactly 1 of last year's 5 starters starting consistently - Kyle Lowry.

    The Raps have the exact same "guys need minutes" problem as Boston. FVV, Siakam, and OG could all be starters on teams. Ibaka and JV could have 80 starts on other teams and it looks like they'll get juggled around.

    Nurse is juggling just as many balls as Stevens, if not more.
    Yeah, Boston's pecking order is much more obvious. The only real issue is getting enough for Hayward, Brown and Tatum. Boston has a very obvious top 5 in terms of talent. If it really seems too hard to get everyone touches in the starting unit, all he has to do is something like move Hayward to the bench to add a scorer there, and bring in a defender like Smart to the starting lineup.

    Toronto is a lot more muddled. As Nurse said, we have 6 guys who are proven starters (OG only had 1 year, but he looked like an ideal role playing starter at the very least). Then we have FVV who plays the 6th man and needs minutes. Then we have Pascal who we're hoping makes a nice leap this year and is getting closer to looking like a starter. I'd even add that Wright also is talented/versatile enough that it's not hard to see him starting in the right situation. And for us while Lowry and Leonard are clearly our top-tier offensive guys, the skills/roles of everyone below them are a lot more mixed up than Boston.

    Then throw in that there is a positional crunch at the wings and at C, with Nurse trying to just use 1 big at a time and maximize the perimeter depth we have. I would say Stevens has a much easier job trying to sort his rotation and roles.

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  • S.R.
    replied
    JawsGT wrote: View Post
    I think BOS clearly has yhe more difficult time integrating the starters. We are basically replacing demars role with kawhi, and adding a vet 3&D off ball player to the rotation. BOS has got to find a way to integrate 2 higher usage players into a small ball rotation in which Tatum has shown an ability to be a high usage guy himself as well. Factor in the rise of Rozier, who is arguably starter quality himself, getting the most out of each of these guys may be more difficult considering they are all capable with the ball in their handsand the younger guys need reps and opportunity with the ball. My guess is Ainge wouLd move Hayward for a siakim type player in a heartbeat.
    Through the first 3 games we have exactly 1 of last year's 5 starters starting consistently - Kyle Lowry.

    The Raps have the exact same "guys need minutes" problem as Boston. FVV, Siakam, and OG could all be starters on teams. Ibaka and JV could have 80 starts on other teams and it looks like they'll get juggled around.

    Nurse is juggling just as many balls as Stevens, if not more.

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  • Ebonhawke
    replied
    I'll go with c) the Lakers

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  • JawsGT
    replied
    I think BOS clearly has yhe more difficult time integrating the starters. We are basically replacing demars role with kawhi, and adding a vet 3&D off ball player to the rotation. BOS has got to find a way to integrate 2 higher usage players into a small ball rotation in which Tatum has shown an ability to be a high usage guy himself as well. Factor in the rise of Rozier, who is arguably starter quality himself, getting the most out of each of these guys may be more difficult considering they are all capable with the ball in their handsand the younger guys need reps and opportunity with the ball. My guess is Ainge wouLd move Hayward for a siakim type player in a heartbeat.

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  • ReubenJRD
    replied
    veda-parabolist wrote: View Post
    Raps already began looking like a coherent unit by the second half of this game. We shouldn't underestimate the effectiveness of Lowry as a floor general and bringing people together. He seems to be already providing a steady rhythm and identity to that starting group with 2 new guys.

    Now just we gotta wait for Delon to come back to give Freddy and his bench mob a little continuity and cohesiveness as well.
    Leonard said it too post-game. Credited Lowry for getting the team in their sets, and for making him feel comfortable on the floor taking those shots.

    Looks like Lowry is the guy living and dying with his teammate shooting inefficiently... *cough* DeRozan *cough*

    Joking aside, Leonard's shots were all so timely. They weren't throwaway baskets, so-to-speak, which is more important down the stretch of games. His impact really was felt despite going 10/25 from the field.

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  • Hotshot
    replied
    white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    The 76ers have not looked very good early. Right now, they miss the shooting depth they acquired late last year.
    The lack of depth does hurt them but they still an elite team (probably 3rd best in the East) and they do have 2 players in Embiid & Simmons who can dominate and change the game which they did in their 2nd game against the Bulls.

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  • white men can't jump
    replied
    Hotshot wrote: View Post
    Boston looked pretty good against 76'ers but Kawhi was simply the difference maker in the game against the Raps. Simply put the Raptors are in a more difficult position not only because of new integration of players ( who came from another team all together) but because of a new coach that wants a constant fluidity to the starting lineup.

    Kawhi is right now like a mini Lebron was in Cleveland, despite all the difficulty the inconsistent team is currently displaying, he is good enough to make a big difference and pull them to victory. Kawhi is a real superstar (sorry Lowry & DD)

    Just imagine what will happen when Nick Nurse iron's out the kinks in the offence, how good this team can really look like once everyone get comfortable with their new role.
    The 76ers have not looked very good early. Right now, they miss the shooting depth they acquired late last year.

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  • Hotshot
    replied
    Boston looked pretty good against 76'ers but Kawhi was simply the difference maker in the game against the Raps. Simply put the Raptors are in a more difficult position not only because of new integration of players ( who came from another team all together) but because of a new coach that wants a constant fluidity to the starting lineup.

    Kawhi is right now like a mini Lebron was in Cleveland, despite all the difficulty the inconsistent team is currently displaying, he is good enough to make a big difference and pull them to victory. Kawhi is a real superstar (sorry Lowry & DD you are/were really good and legit All-Stars but Kawhi is just on a whole other level).

    Just imagine what will happen when Nick Nurse iron's out the kinks in the offence, how good this team can really look like once everyone get comfortable with their new role.

    Leave a comment:


  • white men can't jump
    replied
    slaw wrote: View Post
    Difference is that the Celts 4 best guys need the ball to be effective and the two young guys want to eat. Raps best players can be off the ball and still be effective, as well as, having two PGs who are okay deferring. Raps will have an easier time keeping everyone happy. One reason I think Hayward ends up as the sixth man. He is already paid and as a vet will be more likely to go along for good of the team.
    Regarding the bold, I think that's not quite accurate. They do need the ball, but none of them are particularly great playmakers, so it's more like they need shots but they have to figure out how to make things easier for each other when none of them is really great at creating for others. Irving gets his 5+ assists a night, but doesn't really play like a floor general. Hayward is a good passer, but kind of a jack of all trades master of none type of offensive player. Tatum and Brown are not very good playmakers at this point, and Brown is still generally better as secondary guy who shoots/cuts rather than creates for himself. Also other than Irving, none are great iso players, though Tatum is on his way to becoming one. So it is a weird situation. Lots of guys need shots but they don't really have a guy who gives the ball up and creates well for others. That's why Horford is so critical to them because he actually tends to be the closest thing to a floor general.

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  • sanyo
    replied
    Based on yesterday it's clearly Boston...Hayward looked good at times but it's clear he's still rusty as well.

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  • slaw
    replied
    Difference is that the Celts 4 best guys need the ball to be effective and the two young guys want to eat. Raps best players can be off the ball and still be effective, as well as, having two PGs who are okay deferring. Raps will have an easier time keeping everyone happy. One reason I think Hayward ends up as the sixth man. He is already paid and as a vet will be more likely to go along for good of the team.

    Leave a comment:


  • veda-parabolist
    replied
    Raps already began looking like a coherent unit by the second half of this game. We shouldn't underestimate the effectiveness of Lowry as a floor general and bringing people together. He seems to be already providing a steady rhythm and identity to that starting group with 2 new guys.

    Now just we gotta wait for Delon to come back to give Freddy and his bench mob a little continuity and cohesiveness as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • SkywalkerAC
    replied
    Boston will get better as Hayward fully finds his leg(s). But they should have always been the bigger injury question mark heading into this season.

    Like, I was curious to see just how good Kawhi would be out of the gates with a new team. But his (relatively minor?) injury was just so far in the past.

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  • Puffer
    replied
    KeonClark wrote: View Post
    It's all good Puffer! It wasnt a terrible question. I didn't need to be that guy.
    Keon you are NEVER that guy.
    Last edited by Puffer; Sat Oct 20, 2018, 07:24 AM.

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