Game 18: Toronto Raptors @ Orlando Magic - Tuesday, November 20th 7pm ET, SN1

[A.I]

Game 18: Toronto Raptors @ Orlando Magic - Tuesday, November 20th 7pm ET, SN1

Can't just measure players from hype and ESPN highlights.

Thats what people do unfortunately. Not hitting game winners in the Playoffs? You suck.

The fact is the Cavs have swept the Raptors 3 times in a row and that blame falls on the whole team not just Lowry. Lowry isn’t Lebron who will carry a team to the Finals averaging ridiculous numbers. Only series where Lowry sucked was against the Wizards (that series was disgraceful for the whole team), Pacers and maybe the Bucks. He has generally played well against the Cavs, its his All star teammate and coach who shit the bed and I give majority of the blame to.

This narrative that Lowry “chokes” in the Playoffs is ridiculous.

[DanH]

I agree but I suspect Masai is to stubborn. If Kawhi leaves he probably holds Lowry, flips Ibaka for assets, and rolls on. Siakam scores 23 ppg and OG score 17. Boucher shows promise and we brings in some other unknown guy from Idaho or the Congo or East of Kokomo..

Just my thoughts. Putting the cart before the horse though, we have a championship to win here

Plus Kawhi is totally staying so contingency plans are a waste of time.

[planetmars]

You can't really compare Kemba to Kyle. It's like comparing Kyle to Kyrie. They are both point guards.. but the definition of the point guard has really changed. Kyrie, Kemba, Lillard are scorers. Just like DeMar is. Just like LaVine is in Chicago.

Kyle is a playmaker/shooter. He's wired more like Chris Paul. Chris Paul generally doesn't score much but he's an elite shooter, and great defender (or at least used to be).

So for the Toronto Raptors having a guy like Kyle is more important than having a guy like Kemba or Kyrie. We need a jack of all trades "energy" point guard.. but we have one of the best of the best in that skill. And the reason why we don't need a Kemba or a Kyrie is because we have Kawhi.. or DeMar before him. It doesn't make sense to have two guys that are high usage scorers. It will negate the value of the other one. It's not how you build a team.

I do agree that if you move Kyle to Charlotte they will suck. Batum is their play maker.. and having two guys with that role would make the team worse not better. Like bringing Hedo on a team that has Jose. It's counter productive.

Kyle however would be great on a team with an elite scorer. Like Phoenix (who have Booker). I actually think Boston would be better with Kyle as well since they have so many offensive weapons that can't be unleashed because Kyrie needs the ball.

[KeonClark]

Yeah, the East's ineptitude plays into it, but I think sans Lowry and Kawhi, and assuming we don't do stuff like re-sign Green, I'd expect mid-30's from the young guys. If they want to tank, they just go let Wright go, making them short at PG (quickest path to losing games), and look to remove some of the other veterans like JV and Serge.

I agree but I suspect Masai is to stubborn. If Kawhi leaves he probably holds Lowry, flips Ibaka for assets, and rolls on. Siakam scores 23 ppg and OG score 17. Boucher shows promise and we brings in some other unknown guy from Idaho or the Congo or East of Kokomo..

Just my thoughts. Putting the cart before the horse though, we have a championship to win here

[inthepaint]

To be impactful, you have to play. Lowry plays. Is 100%, Finals MVP Leonard more impactful? Sure, but we haven't seen that guy yet and since he's already missed 5/17 games Lowry has been more important and, yes, more impactful. You can't impact anything watching in the press box.

You're confusing who the better player is with who the more impactful player is (and through 17 games the numbers show it's not that close).

Precisely. Kawhi will most likely catchup but he missed a third of the games, so yes, through the first 17 games Lowry has been more impactful. Matter of of fact Lowry has been one of the most impactful players in the league, considering he's been the most impactful player on the team with the best record in the league right now. Not just from that graph. Can't just measure players from hype and ESPN highlights.

Top 10 PIPM as of today:

Giannis Antetokounmpo
Marc Gasol
Joel Embiid
Kyle Lowry
Stephen Curry
Eric Bledsoe
Paul George
Kevin Durant
Damian Lillard
Pascal Siakam

[DanH]

I dont think were even able to tank anymore. Even at a teardown the under 27 year olds could win high 30s low 40s in this conference

Yeah, the East's ineptitude plays into it, but I think sans Lowry and Kawhi, and assuming we don't do stuff like re-sign Green, I'd expect mid-30's from the young guys. If they want to tank, they just go let Wright go, making them short at PG (quickest path to losing games), and look to remove some of the other veterans like JV and Serge.

[The Great One]

To be impactful, you have to play. Lowry plays. Is 100%, Finals MVP Leonard more impactful? Sure, but we haven't seen that guy yet and since he's already missed 5/17 games Lowry has been more important and, yes, more impactful. You can't impact anything watching in the press box.

You're confusing who the better player is with who the more impactful player is (and through 17 games the numbers show it's not that close).

Let's see. Kawhi missed 5 games, vs the Jazz, Lakers, Wiz, Bucks and Bulls. Two LOTTERY teams and two BELOW average teams. Congrats Kyle on leading them to a 4-1 record. Very impactful.

The ONE game where they played a great team was against the Bucks, and i don't think Giannis played in that game and the Raptors still got blown out.

[KeonClark]

Actually, we were talking about the Raptors needing to trade Lowry next summer if Kawhi leaves otherwise he'd drag them to a respectable record when they really should be tanking if Kawhi leaves.

I dont think were even able to tank anymore. Even at a teardown the under 27 year olds could win high 30s low 40s in this conference

[DanH]

So you're just going rely on that graph? lmao. Deep inside you know Kawhi Leonard is the more impactful player(it's not close) You just don't want to admit it.

Fuck, just a couple of months ago, people here were talking about the Raptors as a lottery team next year if Kawhi leaves.

Actually, we were talking about the Raptors needing to trade Lowry next summer if Kawhi leaves otherwise he'd drag them to a respectable record when they really should be tanking if Kawhi leaves.

[slaw]

So you're just going rely on that graph? lmao. Deep inside you know Kawhi Leonard is the more impactful player(it's not close) You just don't want to admit it.

Fuck, just a couple of months ago, people here were talking about the Raptors as a lottery team next year if Kawhi leaves.

To be impactful, you have to play. Lowry plays. Is 100%, Finals MVP Leonard more impactful? Sure, but we haven't seen that guy yet and since he's already missed 5/17 games Lowry has been more important and, yes, more impactful. You can't impact anything watching in the press box.

You're confusing who the better player is with who the more impactful player is (and through 17 games the numbers show it's not that close).

[The Great One]

So you're just going rely on that graph? lmao. Deep inside you know Kawhi Leonard is the more impactful player(it's not close) You just don't want to admit it.

Fuck, just a couple of months ago, people here were talking about the Raptors as a lottery team next year if Kawhi leaves.

[MixxAOR]

Nick Nurse on the Raptors’ defensive deflections. pic.twitter.com/WgN4Ol4aLd

— (((Eric Koreen))) (@ekoreen) November 20, 2018

[G__Deane]

Kawhi playing tonight. OG and Miles still out. Per various beat guys.

Lowry game time decision too but I bet he plays. He won't miss out on playing the Kawhi games lol

[Maury]

He( Kawhi) is right up there lol. He is the most important player on the team and is the most impactful. There's a reason why he's in the MVP convo and Lowry is not lol.

Why are we even debating this? lol

[The Great One]

It’s not about belief, it’s about what it is. So far, they have been more important. Obviously Kawhi is integral to our team and I don’t doubt that by the end of the year and the playoffs he’ll be right up there, but when it comes to pure impact there aren’t a lot of guys better than Kyle.

He( Kawhi) is right up there lol. He is the most important player on the team and is the most impactful. There's a reason why he's in the MVP convo and Lowry is not lol.

Why are we even debating this? lol