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Game 21: Miami Heat @ Toronto Raptors - Sunday, November 25th 6:00pm ET SN1

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  • Game 21: Miami Heat @ Toronto Raptors - Sunday, November 25th 6:00pm ET SN1

    Projected Starters:











    AT













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    NOTES:

    -Kawhi: "I'm healthy and I'm happy that I'm playing and we're playing well. I'm having fun and just trying to play hard. We've been very successful so far." @jlew1050
    -Kawhi on the (16-4) Raptors through 20 games: "We're playing well. I still think we can get better. Our whole lineup hasn't been here, guys (have) been out... This (tough) upcoming schedule is gonna be good." @jlew1050
    -The Raptors remain perfect (10-0) against teams currently under .500. They'll face another (the 6-11 Heat) on Sunday before the schedule takes a turn for the brutally tough (10 of 12 games vs winning teams). @jlew1050
    -Heat have already declared Goran Dragic and Tyler Johnson out for this one. Waiters has been out a while.
    -Heat play a lot of positionless basketball but expect MIP candidate Josh Richardson to handle the rock a lot, as will our old buddy James Johnson, and Justise Winslow off the bench.
    -Whiteside has been battling knee tendinitis so who knows how much he'll play
    -Kelly Olynyk had a great summer and a few good games earlier this season but has only played 21 minutes over his last three games combined.

  • #2
    YES SCRAPS -- always staying up late to deliver!! -- LET'S GIT ANOTHER ONE

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    • #3
      GOLDBLUM wrote: View Post
      YES SCRAPS -- always staying up late to deliver!! -- LET'S GIT ANOTHER ONE
      Good thing I'm not drinking or this would all make a lot less sense.

      In fact it's funny that as the Raptors fortunes have improved I have become less of an alcoholic lol.

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      • #4
        James 'Cocked that joint back and banged on him' Johnson;

        https://www.instagram.com/p/BqOdEd-g...on_share_sheet

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        • #5
          I'd prefer if they kept Siakam and Serge joined at the hip, and JV and OG together. Siakam's been really impressive but he's much more valuable with the bench and with how well he fits beside Serge it seems a weird choice to make him an every night starter even when JV starts. Or if he starts he should early sub so he can help the bench out right from the get-go. Last couple games we've seen him come in to bail out a struggling bench unit after those struggles. Why wait?
          twitter.com/dhackett1565

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          • #6
            Must see game tonight: Bucks and Spurs. Perhaps Demar can do us a favour. I'm wondering if they finally give Kyle a rest in the Miami game....not that he'd want to of course. It seemed that the Eastern Conference might be stepping up this year but no, only 6 teams at or above .500 while in the west there are 11. Raps and Bucks have the best overall records but after that a big drop off.

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            • #7
              Hope Fred doesn't walk into a Bam moving screen this time around.

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              • #8
                DanH wrote: View Post
                I'd prefer if they kept Siakam and Serge joined at the hip, and JV and OG together. Siakam's been really impressive but he's much more valuable with the bench and with how well he fits beside Serge it seems a weird choice to make him an every night starter even when JV starts. Or if he starts he should early sub so he can help the bench out right from the get-go. Last couple games we've seen him come in to bail out a struggling bench unit after those struggles. Why wait?
                I'll disagree that Siakam should be benched. Siakam is one of our best players right now and I'm one to believe you start your best players (to set the tone of the game early). I know Siakam would also "help the bench". He's been playing exceptionally well and would help any unit, but I don't think that's an argument to bench the guy, if anything the opposite. Like, Lowry, Green and Kawhi would help the bench big time too, but they gotta start.

                That said, I agree that Siakam is a better fit with Ibaka ( vs JV).

                The question now becomes: Does the benefit of starting JV over Ibaka outweigh the impact of benching one of our best players in Siakam (if we're working under the premise Siakam doesn't go with JV)? Maybe against certain starting C's you absolutely need JV, but with the way Ibaka is playing (outstanding rim protection, being effective in the paint, midrange, and 3, and even rebounding better now), I don't know if there are many instances where that would be the case (where you gotta bench both Ibaka and Siakam so JV can start)

                Having said all that, I really like JV + OG as well. In fact one of the things I'm waiting to see more is Kawhi + OG more together, and I think we'll see quite a bit of that as well.
                ==Glad to have doubted the doubters==

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                • #9
                  Mitch P wrote: View Post
                  Must see game tonight: Bucks and Spurs. Perhaps Demar can do us a favour. I'm wondering if they finally give Kyle a rest in the Miami game....not that he'd want to of course. It seemed that the Eastern Conference might be stepping up this year but no, only 6 teams at or above .500 while in the west there are 11. Raps and Bucks have the best overall records but after that a big drop off.
                  Yeah, crazy hey? There's really only one totally shit team in the west, in Phoenix. And they managed to beat Milwaukee last night. Next worst imo is Dallas and they beat GSW shortly ago. (sure, any team can beat any other team on any given night...) After that it's Minnesota/Utah who could maybe be playoff teams out here in the East. Meanwhile the east has ATL, CLE, CHI, NY, WSH, MIA, who are mostly shit as well as BKN, ORL and CHA... who are ostensibly pretty shit. East is strong 1-6... after that it's the dumpster fire of the NBA.

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                  • #10
                    GOLDBLUM wrote: View Post
                    Yeah, crazy hey? There's really only one totally shit team in the west, in Phoenix. And they managed to beat Milwaukee last night. Next worst imo is Dallas and they beat GSW shortly ago. (sure, any team can beat any other team on any given night...) After that it's Minnesota/Utah who could maybe be playoff teams out here in the East. Meanwhile the east has ATL, CLE, CHI, NY, WSH, MIA, who are mostly shit as well as BKN, ORL and CHA... who are ostensibly pretty shit. East is strong 1-6... after that it's the dumpster fire of the NBA.
                    By the same token, there's really only one elite team in the West. If there ever was a year to get to the Finals, this is it. The league is in a state of flux.

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                    • #11
                      inthepaint wrote: View Post
                      I'll disagree that Siakam should be benched. Siakam is one of our best players right now and I'm one to believe you start your best players (to set the tone of the game early). I know Siakam would also "help the bench". He's been playing exceptionally well and would help any unit, but I don't think that's an argument to bench the guy, if anything the opposite. Like, Lowry, Green and Kawhi would help the bench big time too, but they gotta start.

                      That said, I agree that Siakam is a better fit with Ibaka ( vs JV).

                      The question now becomes: Does the benefit of starting JV over Ibaka outweigh the impact of benching one of our best players in Siakam (if we're working under the premise Siakam doesn't go with JV)? Maybe against certain starting C's you absolutely need JV, but with the way Ibaka is playing (outstanding rim protection, being effective in the paint, midrange, and 3, and even rebounding better now), I don't know if there are many instances where that would be the case (where you gotta bench both Ibaka and Siakam so JV can start)

                      Having said all that, I really like JV + OG as well. In fact one of the things I'm waiting to see more is Kawhi + OG more together, and I think we'll see quite a bit of that as well.
                      Why the term "benching" is assumed to be bad is beyond me. He would get the same number of minutes. He'd just play all the bench minutes and only some of the starter minutes.

                      As for Siakam's breakout, he's averaging 16 points per 36 on 63% shooting when playing with both Kawhi and Lowry. And averaging 22 points per 36 on 70% shooting when playing away from both of them this year. His breakout is happening regardless of where he plays.

                      It's not so JV can start. It's so JV can play with the players he should play with. And so Siakam and Serge are leveraged into the most net gain for the team possible. JV doesn't need to start for any of this to happen. On nights where JV is starting anyway because of the C matchup, why stick to Siakam for no reason? Are we forgetting that OG basically saved the starting lineup last year? Why is it OK for him to come off the bench every night but not OK for Siakam to do so sometimes? And even on nights where Siakam and Serge start, they could easily play with the bench as well. Are we so far removed from two seasons ago where the bench always had a starter with them at all times? It's not hard to stagger guys' minutes based on when the team most needs them to play.

                      I don't understand the trade off question you pose? In my mind, the benefits of starting JV and OG are obvious. While moving Siakam and Ibaka's minutes so they cover off all the bench minutes and also get some time with the starters also benefits the team. So there's no losses to account for. The bench is better, the starters score more easily for a solid chunk of their minutes and if you need to shift to a smaller group with the starters you can do so whenever you please. What's the trade-off?
                      twitter.com/dhackett1565

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        DanH wrote: View Post
                        Why the term "benching" is assumed to be bad is beyond me. He would get the same number of minutes. He'd just play all the bench minutes and only some of the starter minutes.
                        This is something that is intellectually correct but not how things work in reality. Coaches and players may say that it doesn't matter whether a player starts or not, but it is generally unspoken that starting is more prestigious, and is for the team's best players. That's why the term "getting benched" has a negative connotation, and not just in basketball but across all sports. That negative connotation may also be accompanied by financial concerns, as other teams may not want to offer big money to bench players.

                        Do I think Pascal would care? Probably not that much. But I think starting is a good reward for all the hard work he's done to get here.

                        There are only a few guys in league history for whom it truly didn't matter, the obvious one being Kevin McHale. So I agree with inthepaint, you start your best players. As a side note I think OG-JV is far less versatile than Pascal-Serge against the majority of teams in today's NBA.

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                        • #13
                          The unwritten structure of salary disbursements as well play a large part especially for the young up'ncomers ...starters get the larger/more lucrative deals.. not the second teamers. Eg. Serge has his big deal and is not particularly concerned about coming off the bench. First team all-star assignments as well are a another issue.

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                          • #14
                            Does anyone know where to go to find out how efficient Kawhi is in isolation set plays?

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                            • #15
                              Truth Teller wrote: View Post
                              Does anyone know where to go to find out how efficient Kawhi is in isolation set plays?
                              scotiabank arena?

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