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Game #28: Milwaukee Bucks @ Toronto Raptors, December 9 - 6PM EST TSN/590

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  • DanH wrote: View Post
    Ugh, well, take up the nomenclature with NBA.com then.

    Again, what is Lowry's job? I'd say each and every player on the team has one job and one job only. Win the games.

    I doubt Lowry is hurt. He could be, of course. And yes, he's playing poorly. My point is, he will obviously start scoring more, so why are we worried? He's not killing the team in the meantime (he's also not saving the team from Nurse burying them under poor rotation decisions, but it's a rough patch, what can you do?).

    Seriously. If you are so dense as to miss the point of the team scoring at a 121 ORTG with him on the court having more meaning than whatever individual scoring he puts up, I don't know what to tell you.

    Yeah, his teammates carried him. Kawhi without Lowry in that game had a 75 ORTG (yes, the team number, the only one that matters) in 6 minutes. Pascal? 77. FVV? 68. Weird how those teammates carrying Lowry decided to stop carrying the team once he checked out of the game. Funny how that happens.
    If we're going to resort to insults and absolute results, then what truly matters is the W or the L. If Lowry scores 4 more points or doesn't turn the ball over, or generally doesn't thoroughly soil the bed.... we get the W.

    17-2: when Lowry scores 10 or more
    3-5: when Lowry scores less than 10

    We need Lowry to get a few buckets. Zero points is not acceptable in any universe. Is that simple enough for you to understand?

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    • OG is our king

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      • golden wrote: View Post
        If we're going to resort to insults and absolute results, then what truly matters is the W or the L. If Lowry scores 4 more points or doesn't turn the ball over, or generally doesn't thoroughly soil the bed.... we get the W.

        17-2: when Lowry scores 10 or more
        3-5: when Lowry scores less than 10

        We need Lowry to get a few buckets. Zero points is not acceptable in any universe. Is that simple enough for you to understand?
        It is! It's also demonstrably false. Heck, we won three games where he didn't score 10! And looking closely at all you see that, yes, if Lowry is scoring well then we are dominant enough to absorb the various mistakes we are making with the rotation. And if not, we aren't. Shocking turn of events.

        Yes, he needs to score more. And yes, of course he will score more. But him not scoring is only one of a myriad of reasons for the recent losses, and far from the most important.

        We are 17-2 when Ibaka scores 18 points or fewer. 3-4 when Ibaka scores 19 or more. I guess Ibaka should stop shooting when he's open, those points are hurting us.
        twitter.com/dhackett1565

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        • DanH wrote: View Post
          It is! It's also demonstrably false. Heck, we won three games where he didn't score 10! And looking closely at all you see that, yes, if Lowry is scoring well then we are dominant enough to absorb the various mistakes we are making with the rotation. And if not, we aren't. Shocking turn of events.

          Yes, he needs to score more. And yes, of course he will score more. But him not scoring is only one of a myriad of reasons for the recent losses, and far from the most important.

          We are 17-2 when Ibaka scores 18 points or fewer. 3-4 when Ibaka scores 19 or more. I guess Ibaka should stop shooting when he's open, those points are hurting us.
          Translation: When Lowry scores zero points and we lose..... it's Nurse's fault.

          I'm out.

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          • Good point, I guess we'll just have to wait it out and see. I REALLY hope you're right.
            I relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.

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            • golden wrote: View Post
              Translation: When Lowry scores zero points and we lose..... it's Nurse's fault.

              I'm out.

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              • Blame me guys. I had to miss last nights game completely. The sports highlights only told me Kawhi missed the game winner on a not ideal attempt, and Lowry got the Sam Mitchell award "ZEEERO"

                This thread was probably not enjoyable.

                Big picture, we're still the only team with 7 losses, we still have 3 more wins than any other team, and maybe some road cookin out west is just what the doctor ordered to wake up Lowry and the shooters.
                It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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                • KeonClark wrote: View Post
                  Blame me guys. I had to miss last nights game completely. The sports highlights only told me Kawhi missed the game winner on a not ideal attempt, and Lowry got the Sam Mitchell award "ZEEERO"

                  This thread was probably not enjoyable.

                  Big picture, we're still the only team with 7 losses, we still have 3 more wins than any other team, and maybe some road cookin out west is just what the doctor ordered to wake up Lowry and the shooters.

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                  • golden wrote: View Post
                    Translation: When Lowry scores zero points and we lose..... it's Nurse's fault.

                    I'm out.
                    No, when Lowry scores zero points, that's Lowry's fault. It won't continue, there's no reason to believe it will continue, and in the meantime he is STILL driving the offence for the most part. As such, the panic in this thread is dumb.

                    When we lose, for reasons including rotations, the single most controllable thing in basketball, it is Nurse's fault.

                    No response to that Ibaka stat? Where is your outrage over his scoring too much? I thought it was just that simple?
                    twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                    • Game was actually very enjoyable. Raptors had a chance to win it at the end.

                      Damn Brogdon. Hit two big 3's and Bud had that killer out of bounds play to get Giannis that dunk (although maybe you could blame Siakam on that one).

                      Kawhi had an off night. His defense was incredible, but he missed a lot of clean looks (like that 3 to try and tie the game).

                      As for Lowry.. his shooting has been bad. That corner 3 he missed to go up 6 really sucked. I don't buy the injury excuse. How many charges did he take on Embiid against Philly? He's still hustling out there and grabbing boards and loose balls. So if he was hurt that stuff would not be happening.

                      He's a rhythm guy and he's got none right now. It's why rest days really suck for him. He needs to get his groove back so we can beat teams by 20 again. I bet he's shooting in an empty gym and wondering where his shot went. He's got the same problem CJ has. Just too much in his head.

                      What really sucks is his shot disappeared at the same time as we go on our toughest stretch of games. Hope we see Kawhi in both games for the B2B.

                      This is why I wanted Butler. Just to have a second or third scorer out there. I don't think we could have beaten a Saric/Covington package even if we dangled OG. So c'est la vie.

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                      • A few bad things that stood out to me (other than Lowry and the Bench):

                        1. Free throws. Raps only shot 7 free throws to Bucks' 20. Bucks outscored Raps by 11 at the line. That's a significant gap.

                        2. 44 threes is too many threes. Raps got caught up in the Bucks' game of launching triples. Toronto needs to find a better balance with its offense, especially the bench. Teams are smiling when Wright and OG are chucking up shots. And let Serge move in a bit. He doesn't need threes all game. Let him make those knock-down midrange shots.

                        3. Raps EOG execution is not good. Outside of the first Boston game and the GSW game, Toronto's execution in close games at the end of the 4th has been poor. Primarily the offense but the defense as well. This isn't about aggregating stats and looking at numbers: Raps are losing most of their close games (Brooklyn, Bucks, Denver, Detroit and Boston) often against teams where you would think Toronto had a clear advantage. I keep going back to my belief that this team is way too casual and then tries to turn it on when it feels like it. That isn't a good game strategy but it also prevents you from developing winning habits (stingy on the glass, taking care of the ball, working to get easy shots, etc.).

                        A few good things:

                        1. The defense is getting better. Not only did they hold the Bucks under 30 every quarter, they held them to 41% shooting despite Milwaukee hitting some crazy shots from three.

                        2. Siakam continues to produce. Even as teams adjust he is finding ways to get it done. Another solid outing. If this FVV end of game stuff is going to be a thing, then Siakam needs to roll with the bench more. 25 minutes is not enough for our second best player.

                        3. Rebounding. Finally took care of the glass.

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                        • I am not worried about Kyle but as planetmars noted this is why we probably need a true #2 option. Kyle is not great at creating offense for himself. He doesn't have the elite ability of a Kyrie Irving to create separation or burst past his man, his own scoring generally comes in the context of the team's offense.

                          And that is okay. But if playoff teams lock down Kawhi, even though he is obviously better than DeMar was, we may run into a similar brick wall if we have unreliable secondary/tertiary scoring.

                          Sometimes losing games is as simple as shots not falling... But there may also be a warning sign here we should probably think about.

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                          • Scraptor wrote: View Post
                            I am not worried about Kyle but as planetmars noted this is why we probably need a true #2 option. Kyle is not great at creating offense for himself. He doesn't have the elite ability of a Kyrie Irving to create separation or burst past his man, his own scoring generally comes in the context of the team's offense.

                            And that is okay. But if playoff teams lock down Kawhi, even though he is obviously better than DeMar was, we may run into a similar brick wall if we have unreliable secondary/tertiary scoring.

                            Sometimes losing games is as simple as shots not falling... But there may also be a warning sign here we should probably think about.
                            Yeah, if the price for Jimmy Butler was OG, then we probably should have went for it. Otherwise, our "one year in heaven" is in jeopardy. Other than last-minute game winners.... Kawhi is pretty amazing.

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                            • DanH wrote: View Post

                              No response to that Ibaka stat? Where is your outrage over his scoring too much? I thought it was just that simple?
                              Oh, okay.... your trolling worked. Ibaka's stat proves that when Serge is forced to pick up the slack for Lowry not scoring, then we're more likely to lose. That's not a hard concept to understand, unless you have extreme bias. To win games, we need Lowry to score, more than we need Serge to score. And I'm talking about like only 10-12 ppg from Kyle at this point. He's capable of that, regardless of his decline.

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                              • Wish Lowry was this delusional. Maybe that's a secret to being lights out shooter.
                                Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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