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Game #28: Milwaukee Bucks @ Toronto Raptors, December 9 - 6PM EST TSN/590

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  • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
    Nobody gives a fuck what his plus/minus was in those games.

    He's disappearing on the offensive end. His plus minus should be HIGHER than that, and it would be if he was actually producing any kind of offense.
    Exactly lol.

    I knew DanH would find a way to blame Nurse and deflect the real issue that is Kyle Lowry smfh.

    +/- is an overrated stat. It's overrated in hockey it's even more overrated in basketball.

    The bottomline line is Lowry played like complete shit. He's a guy that you can't trust in close games. He's shown it time and time again. The end.
    Mamba Mentality

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    • golden wrote: View Post
      Oh, okay.... your trolling worked. Ibaka's stat proves that when Serge is forced to pick up the slack for Lowry not scoring, then we're more likely to lose. That's not a hard concept to understand, unless you have extreme bias. To win games, we need Lowry to score, more than we need Serge to score. And I'm talking about like only 10-12 ppg from Kyle at this point. He's capable of that, regardless of his decline.
      Ah, so the theory is that it's not Lowry not scoring that's the problem, it's Ibaka's usage. High Ibaka usage = loss. Hmm.

      And yet in Serge's 9 highest usage percentage games, we are 7-2. In his 10th-18th highest usage games, we are 7-2. And in his 19th-27th highest usage games, we are 7-2. In the one game Serge missed, we lost.

      You want an actual trend, the reason those losses pile up from Serge's scoring nights are because he's playing too many minutes - and when Serge plays a lot, the offence relies way too heavily on Lowry scoring on his own. So on those nights where the scoring isn't there, and Serge plays a lot, the team will tend to lose.

      If you are looking to make some huge statement by saying that when a main player scores less, you tend to win less, uh, yeah. Of course. Heck, we're only 4-2 in games where Kawhi scores under 20. Only 7-5 when Kawhi doesn't hit more than 1 three pointer. 4-3 when Kawhi has 3 turnovers. No outrage over that.

      Heck, when Lowry has fewer than 8 assists, the team is 4-3. Shouldn't we be just as concerned about that?

      I get it. He has scored poorly for a few games, so it's the hot button issue of the day, and people love to get worked up over things that obviously won't be a long term trend because people are silly. I should just leave you guys to it in the future. Have fun, I guess.
      twitter.com/dhackett1565

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      • DanH wrote: View Post
        Ah, so the theory is that it's not Lowry not scoring that's the problem, it's Ibaka's usage. High Ibaka usage = loss. Hmm.

        And yet in Serge's 9 highest usage percentage games, we are 7-2. In his 10th-18th highest usage games, we are 7-2. And in his 19th-27th highest usage games, we are 7-2. In the one game Serge missed, we lost.

        You want an actual trend, the reason those losses pile up from Serge's scoring nights are because he's playing too many minutes - and when Serge plays a lot, the offence relies way too heavily on Lowry scoring on his own. So on those nights where the scoring isn't there, and Serge plays a lot, the team will tend to lose.

        If you are looking to make some huge statement by saying that when a main player scores less, you tend to win less, uh, yeah. Of course. Heck, we're only 4-2 in games where Kawhi scores under 20. Only 7-5 when Kawhi doesn't hit more than 1 three pointer. 4-3 when Kawhi has 3 turnovers. No outrage over that.

        Heck, when Lowry has fewer than 8 assists, the team is 4-3. Shouldn't we be just as concerned about that?

        I get it. He has scored poorly for a few games, so it's the hot button issue of the day, and people love to get worked up over things that obviously won't be a long term trend because people are silly. I should just leave you guys to it in the future. Have fun, I guess.
        Not just Ibaka's usage - that's still cherry picking. But it is an indicator of Lowry being unwilling (or afraid) to shoot. For his stature and importance on the team, he needs to be scoring more. Period. There's no debating around this simple truth.

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        • With respect to Lowry, I would say it's less about scoring and more about: him being a threat to score and the momentum shots. When he starts knocking down those threes on the secondary break or the fadeaways from the left wing, the team plays a lot better cause there is space and easy buckets for everyone else. Lowry also has a knack for hitting buckets that lift the team and create momentum (Memphis game was a prime example of this). Maybe even more important, his teammates expect it and are waiting for it. There were at least two occasions yesterday when a Lowry three would have brought the house down, then he missed and you could feel the wind go out of the sails.

          As for a fall-off, they guy was simply too good early on to just fall off a cliff. Something's wrong (or was wrong) physically and now its affecting him mentally as well.

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          • It would be nice to have a second scorer (I mean which team wouldn't). It's a lot harder to actually get one. Washington is only 1 game back of the 8th seed in the East. Why would they sell now?

            Out West the only team out of the playoffs right now is Phoenix. Ariza is not a scorer. He's a sub par Danny Green at this point.

            The only two guys I can think of that might be available are Kevin Love and Tim Hardway Jr. The former is obvious, especially with that Hill trade. Cavs are all about Zion/RJ and are looking at lottery tickets. Love can be a decent 2nd scorer. He's not really an ISO guy though. More of a spot up shooter.. and we don't have Lebron on our team to help him out. In order to get him we'd have to include JV but they have Tristan. Beside our 2021 pick is still pretty tough to give up even with Love here (a Love/Lowry team without Kawhi doesn't sound so appealing).

            THJR would cost much less than a guy like Love though. NY wants to hoard cap space. It's tough to make a deal work then. Plus again they have Kanter so they'd have no use for JV. And would Dolan ever want to work with Masai again?

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            • I know secondary scoring is the topic du jour but I honestly don't think it's a huge issue. After Leonard and Lowry we have 3 guys who can easily average 18 with a touch more usage. I think Ibaka already over 18. The biggest issues right now are a shaky bench and lowry's slump. If he hits 1 or 2 more shots a game we probably win brooklyn and Milwaukee
              It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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              • KeonClark wrote: View Post
                I know secondary scoring is the topic du jour but I honestly don't think it's a huge issue. After Leonard and Lowry we have 3 guys who can easily average 18 with a touch more usage. I think Ibaka already over 18. The biggest issues right now are a shaky bench and lowry's slump. If he hits 1 or 2 more shots a game we probably win brooklyn and Milwaukee
                Agreed. Its not just Lowry, its 3 point shooting as a team thats been horrible. Ranked 29th in 3P% in December while they were 14th in November. It will bounce back.

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                • KeonClark wrote: View Post
                  I know secondary scoring is the topic du jour but I honestly don't think it's a huge issue. After Leonard and Lowry we have 3 guys who can easily average 18 with a touch more usage. I think Ibaka already over 18. The biggest issues right now are a shaky bench and lowry's slump. If he hits 1 or 2 more shots a game we probably win brooklyn and Milwaukee
                  There ya go. Proud of you, Keon. Lowry is having a bad few weeks scoring and you're willing to admit it. That's all it is.... fingers crossed. No need to try and sugar-coat it or try to use funky numbers to convince anybody otherwise.

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                  • That was another tough loss playing at home with the team almost at full strength against a well coached Bucks team with that Brogdon guy who is always known to make clutch shots (really HATE him but would want him in a heartbeat). He is the Terry Rozier of this season.

                    Kyle struggled obviously yet again. Eventhough I am a harsh critic of Nurse but I wont put this loss on him. Bucks just made some clutch shots and we didnt. It may have went the other way.

                    In a seven game series, bias aside I would still take the Raptors to come out as winners with HCA.

                    This is one of the regular season game that I would confidently say will not define the Raptors performance in the playoffs. Too bad though that the Bucks already took two from us.

                    Remember however that we sweep the Wizards in the regular season but ended up embarrassed when it mattered.

                    These 4 game West Coast swing is the toughest so to come out 3-1 would be something to be proud of.

                    Go Raptors !
                    You cannot cancel me out dumb dumb, I will always be in that little nugget of yours camping like a mosquito https://forums.raptorsrepublic.com/c...ilies/wink.png

                    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers


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                    • I blame Lowry for fracturing our family

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                      • slaw wrote: View Post
                        A few bad things that stood out to me (other than Lowry and the Bench):

                        1. Free throws. Raps only shot 7 free throws to Bucks' 20. Bucks outscored Raps by 11 at the line. That's a significant gap.
                        This is always a concern. When was the lkast time Raps had 20 f/t to the opposition's 7?
                        If it's because we aren't being aggressive in the paint (perhaps evidenced by 44 threes jacked up) then fine. If it's because the whistle is against us game after game, that's a problem. We've had games where the opposition *star* gets more f/t than the Raptor team.....

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                        • MixxAOR wrote: View Post



                          Wish Lowry was this delusional. Maybe that's a secret to being lights out shooter.
                          You could only land on the moon if it was flat

                          -Kyrie Irving

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                          • Lowry, OG and Wright totalled 3 points.

                            Surprised no one mentioned this, brutal but it wasn't just about Lowry. It was a brutal 3 point effort .... both in that total and from the line that bears it's name....

                            Not to hack on OG but he's been generally underwhelming for most of the season. And when was the last time any of the support players )non Kawhi and Lowry) surprised with a big game. JV a few games ago and Fred a few games prior? The "depth" has to step up occasionally.

                            Comment


                            • golden wrote: View Post
                              If we're going to resort to insults and absolute results, then what truly matters is the W or the L. If Lowry scores 4 more points or doesn't turn the ball over, or generally doesn't thoroughly soil the bed.... we get the W.

                              17-2: when Lowry scores 10 or more
                              3-5: when Lowry scores less than 10

                              We need Lowry to get a few buckets. Zero points is not acceptable in any universe. Is that simple enough for you to understand?
                              I also love his bullshit narrative of "we're outscoring the other team when Lowry is on". Yeah no shit we are because we have a very elite starting lineup. We would be outscoring them by EVEN more and thus winning these games against big teams if he was actually contributing as a scorer.

                              Not really rocket science if one isn't "so dense" as to miss that point.

                              Comment


                              • G__Deane wrote: View Post
                                Lowry, OG and Wright totalled 3 points.

                                Surprised no one mentioned this, brutal but it wasn't just about Lowry. It was a brutal 3 point effort .... both in that total and from the line that bears it's name....

                                Not to hack on OG but he's been generally underwhelming for most of the season. And when was the last time any of the support players )non Kawhi and Lowry) surprised with a big game. JV a few games ago and Fred a few games prior? The "depth" has to step up occasionally.
                                OG and Wright are role players. They are allowed to have games where they disappear because the team isn't as dependent on them for success.

                                Lowry is supposed to be a star player and the leader of the team. Fucking be a star, produce offensively and lead.

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