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2018-19 Trade Rumours and Discussion - Deadline February 7th 2019

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  • Superjudge wrote: View Post
    As for this whole debacle, and how it pertains to the Raptors.

    Anthony Davis is a good player, but he isn't better or more valuable then 4-5 core players from any team. I thought more about it, and Davis isn't even all that much better than Siakam, Siakam is just skimming the surface of what he might be.

    For a rental, no fucking way I want that guy, not if it means losing Toronto's best up and coming player, the second best in OG, our PG depth while our main guys is shitting the bed, and our back up center depth. Thats fucking insane actually.

    The Matthews signing is what Toronto needs, they were already, until recently, the best in the East as is. Gutting the team for Davis..... creates the Pelicans of the North.

    Toronto needs ot look elsewhere...i.e. find a way to scoop someone nobody thought of while nobody is looking....
    AD is a top 5 talent. Anywhere he goes, he will be the core. The guy is an offense and defensive juggernaut.
    https://www.basketball-reference.com...davisan02.html

    Comment


    • The Pelicans did learn on Monday of a new extended list of teams Davis is willing to stay with long term upon getting traded, including the Milwaukee Bucks and Los Angeles Clippers, league sources said. Those teams have yet to make offers for Davis and likely don't have the assets to make a deal happen, league sources said.

      Paul is providing the Pelicans with clear options beyond the Lakers, but there are questions being asked about the viability of those teams' ability to make compelling offers to the Pelicans. The New York Knicks were already on that extended list, although they were rejected in their offer of a package centered on Kristaps Porzingis prior to his trade to Dallas, league sources said.
      http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2...-anthony-davis
      Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

      Comment


      • Superjudge wrote: View Post
        As for this whole debacle, and how it pertains to the Raptors.

        Anthony Davis is a good player, but he isn't better or more valuable then 4-5 core players from any team. I thought more about it, and Davis isn't even all that much better than Siakam, Siakam is just skimming the surface of what he might be.

        For a rental, no fucking way I want that guy, not if it means losing Toronto's best up and coming player, the second best in OG, our PG depth while our main guys is shitting the bed, and our back up center depth. Thats fucking insane actually.

        The Matthews signing is what Toronto needs, they were already, until recently, the best in the East as is. Gutting the team for Davis..... creates the Pelicans of the North.

        Toronto needs ot look elsewhere...i.e. find a way to scoop someone nobody thought of while nobody is looking....
        Depth means jack in the playoffs. As Raptors fans I thought that that would be a consensus by now.

        Wes Matthews isn't going to push us over the Warriors when we can't even beat the Bucks at home.

        Comment


        • Superjudge wrote: View Post
          As for this whole debacle, and how it pertains to the Raptors.

          Anthony Davis is a good player, but he isn't better or more valuable then 4-5 core players from any team. I thought more about it, and Davis isn't even all that much better than Siakam, Siakam is just skimming the surface of what he might be.

          For a rental, no fucking way I want that guy, not if it means losing Toronto's best up and coming player, the second best in OG, our PG depth while our main guys is shitting the bed, and our back up center depth. Thats fucking insane actually.

          The Matthews signing is what Toronto needs, they were already, until recently, the best in the East as is. Gutting the team for Davis..... creates the Pelicans of the North.

          Toronto needs ot look elsewhere...i.e. find a way to scoop someone nobody thought of while nobody is looking....
          Okay, a few points in response:

          1. Anthony Davis isn't a "good player." He's one of the five best players in the league.

          2. He is absolutely worth more than "4-5 core players from any team" so long as all of those guys aren't top-20 guys. His trade value might not be that high, but his impact almost certainly is. Don't think in terms of regular season; think in terms of playoffs, where your team essentially contracts to eight or nine guys, five of whom play 80% of the minutes. You want Davis to be one of those five guys, because he is - again - one of the five best players in the league.

          3. Siakam may well become more than he is, and that would be great. But Anthony Davis is that now. He is better than Siakam is just about every possible respect that exists, and that is not a slight on Siakam. Davis is simply that good.

          4. There are trade packages for Davis which are reasonable and ones which are less reasonable. Siakam obviously is the centerpiece of any such package, since he's probably the best overall player the Pellies can get for him. You need one of Ibaka or Jonas to make the money work both ways. After that, you throw in additional players and picks to balance the trade for both teams. Jonas + Siakam + OG + Fred + two first round picks, for example, is probably a little too rich. Ibaka + Siakam + Delon + one first-rounder is probably a little on the cheap side. The actual deal - assuming one is to be made - probably comes somewhere in the middle if it happens. (Remember that Masai likes to "win" trades, and in fact almost always does.)

          5. Whatever gets traded away, you still have a team for these playoffs that will feature Anthony Davis, Kawhi Leonard, what is left of Kyle Lowry (who can still playmake and defend at a star level even when his shot isn't falling), Danny Green and one of either Jonas or Serge, plus probably one of either Freddy or Delon. That's six of your eight or nine guys right there: if the Raps can get some decent buyout candidates like Wes Matthews they'll have an outstanding playoff team that will absolutely contend for Finals, and they'll have built a team that is the best possible opportunity to convince both Kawhi and AD to resign. They are not going to become the "Pelicans of the north" because the Pelicans became the Pelicans because Jrue Holiday was injured for far too long and because the Pellies took a massive risk on Boogie and it didn't work out and because the Pelicans signed guys like Solomon Hill and Omer Asik to be AD's backup rather than, like, good players.

          Comment


          • If I'm the Pelicans or any other team (aside from the the two LA teams), I wouldn't put much weight on these "lists". I understand the principle behind it is, "Hey Pelicans, these are some of the teams that I would 'maybe' sign an extension with, therefore you'd be be okay in expecting a bigger package from them".

            But in reality, how credible would a list like this be (unless you're the Lakers)? To me any team should treat him like a 1.5yr rental and offer packages reflecting that. Pelicans should focus on what kind of players they'd want in return (as opposed to Davis's whim), which as they said, would be: a few prospects (one of which with all-nba potential), picks, and cap relief. Basically young guys on friendly contracts that can kick-start a quick rebuild.

            They don't necessarily want win-now established vets, unless it's for balancing salary so the trade can happen. Essentially, until he's an actual Free Agent, it's on the Pelicans' hands, not AD's. The focus should be more on what they want, rather then what AD wants.

            ===So from the Pelicans perspective, which teams offer a package that will ticks all these boxes:

            -- Player with all-NBA potential
            -- Young players used to winning/coming from winning culture
            -- Players on friendly deals (Rookie scale or expiring soon), so they can get their cap relief
            -- Salary ballast that's not necessarily a "bad salary" and can actually help the rebuild
            -- First round pick

            ===From the buyers perspective, the boxes are:

            -- Availability of assets to meet what the Pels are looking for above
            -- Willingness to do it for a rental (which is not the same as the ability to do it)
            -- Ability to do it without gutting your team to the point you just become another NOLA.

            Frankly, I think there are only a handful of teams out there that can meet all these parameters. Raps is one of them: All-nba potential (Siakam); young/used to winning/friendly deals (OG, FVV, Norm); friendly salary ballast (JV or Ibaka). The only area we may fall short is the pick, but the 2021 FRP is not that far away, and it could be a high pick depending on how everything unfolds.

            I'd like to sincerely know which other team would tick all these boxes. I'm sure there are more, I just don't follow other teams in detail, so I wouldn't know the field here, but there can't be many.
            2019 NBA Champions. Glad to have doubted the doubters.

            Comment


            • 4 fucking picks? damn it was nice to dream


              Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

              Comment


              • MixxAOR wrote: View Post
                4 fucking picks? damn it was nice to dream
                That's just because it's the Lakers, which the one team where he wouldn't be a rental, and the team the Pels are going out of their to make it difficult for AD to go to. So they're twisting the knife. Both Pelicans & the other teams know that this would not likely be the price for AD as a rental.
                2019 NBA Champions. Glad to have doubted the doubters.

                Comment


                • Ya the list is BS hes promising to commit to teams while hes leaving one early lol.

                  4 picks nice move! Get them unprotected. Get bron to give davis a deep french kiss too

                  Comment


                  • magoon wrote: View Post
                    Okay, a few points in response:

                    1. Anthony Davis isn't a "good player." He's one of the five best players in the league.
                    +100. AD is basically a less crazy Kevin Garnett before he got rescued by the Celtics. People forget that KG never won a first round series until he was like 28 years old. KG lost 22 of his first 29 playoff games. AD did that last year at age 24, in a tougher era.

                    Comment


                    • MixxAOR wrote: View Post
                      4 fucking picks? damn it was nice to dream


                      And if Davis and LeBron bail in summer of 2021, there are going to be some good picks in those four.��

                      Comment


                      • I would give up half the farm just for this year with Kawhi and Davis and the very good chance for an NBA finals and perhaps championship.

                        Throw in the opportunity to sign Kawhi for a 1+1 to play with Davis for an entire year and I'm all in.

                        I think fans underestimate the chance that the Raps as currently constructed, bow out in a hard fought 2nd or 3rd round loss to the Celtics or Bucks, Kawhi leaves and we're back to a decent team with absolutely no chance to win it all in the foreseeable future.

                        I'd sooner take our chances with an elite lineup for a year or two than take a step back and just be good again for 10 years ....

                        How often does a team get a chance to pair two elite NBA talents on one roster? When you name them, they likely won a chip or two under that talent.

                        Comment


                        • I’m surprised so many people are on board for selling the farm for a one-year shot at a championship.

                          Anthony Davis is going to be a Laker by July 2020, probably sooner. Does anyone believe he has any intention of signing anywhere else? Toronto wasn’t even on his supposed list of rental destinations. Lebron and Rich Paul will have their say.

                          I’m less confident about Kawhi. He’s so inscrutable that there may be a chance he actually ends up liking Toronto and the potential of some of the young guys enough to take the big contract and stay. Even that, though, is a long shot. He’s much more likely gone this summer.

                          So the way I see it, you guys either really believe both these guys would resign in TO despite how highly unlikely it is, or you are actually looking forward to a rebuild starting with the likes of Fred and Norm. Even if you’re ok with that sad outcome, would you really be proud of one single championship bought with the best players brought up in the system over the past 5 years? Not my style of fandom. That wou”d be worse that what people blame KD for in GS and what Bosh, Lebron and Wade started in Miami.
                          Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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                          • MixxAOR wrote: View Post
                            4 fucking picks? damn it was nice to dream


                            Demps is so smart here.. I'm sure he recognizes Lebron's window/age and Boston's willingness to still make a deal this offseason as a way to force the Lakers to make a Billy King type of deal for Davis.

                            Of course I'd love Davis here, but if we can't, this is like the next best thing.

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                            • Hard to read the language here even after watching the video. Is he asking for 4 first round picks and then 2nd round picks? Or four picks (maybe two first round, 2 second round)?

                              Comment


                              • Jclaw wrote: View Post
                                Hard to read the language here even after watching the video. Is he asking for 4 first round picks and then 2nd round picks? Or four picks (maybe two first round, 2 second round)?
                                I took it as a combination of 4 picks.. so potentially 3 firsts and 1 second. If it was 4 firsts and 4 seconds that would be insane.

                                Comment

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