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Game #41 Raptors (28-12) @ Buck (26-10) NBA TV SN1 830 (Toronto) 730 (Winnipeg) 630 (Calgary) 530 (Vancouver)

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  • I wanna give a shout-out to Serge. Finished with 29pts, 9 boards and 5 assists (which is actually over twice as many assists as the backup PG (Wright), as a Centre). That combined with some elite, outstanding defence, particularly on Giannis. Massive game.

    I still think Siakam would probably have a better chance to crack All-star then him, but Serge is not far behind, especially when he's got good PG play to elevate his game (like Lowry).

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    • Beal is not a very good basketball player, AD, however would be awesome.

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      • Quirk wrote: View Post
        Beal is not a very good basketball player, AD, however would be awesome.
        Lmao
        The name's Bond, James Bond.

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        • Quirk wrote: View Post
          Beal is not a very good basketball player, AD, however would be awesome.

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          • Zainab wrote: View Post

            had to get that win
            Out for Load Management

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            • golden wrote: View Post
              The idea that FVV is not a PG and needs to play off-ball all the time is some dumb narrative that people on this site eat up anything that DanH spews. When FVV closed games last year, it was Lowry who went off-ball as the SG. FVV basically needs to play like Jose Calderon, who couldn't take me off the dribble but he could run a mean PnR and was a dead-eye shooter from 3. Is there anybody who wouldn't call Jose a PG? Second greatest PG in team history, no? FVV needs to model that.

              The issue is that Nurse wants to be more 'unpredictable' rather than run a lot of traditional PnR stuff in preparation for the playoffs. That's still a good idea, because you could see how the Raps blew up Bud's vaunted "system" when we locked in defensively, and they relied on Giannis going supernova or else it would have been a blowout. That was playoff basketball last night.
              I guess I don't quite understand why people are so down on FVV (or at least it seems that way). He's the exact same guy he was last year except he's not shooting it quite as good. Otherwise, there really isn't any difference. Defensively, he's smart, makes his rotations and can lock in on small guards. He has trouble against big guards from time to time. Duh. Offensively, teams are locked into him this year in a way they weren't last year, he's playing against tougher competition as the starting PG on a team everyone is out to beat, and he's being asked to take on the role of the team's best playmaker and second-best player.

              For fuck's sake, he's doing fine. Yeah, he's had more bad games than Lowry would have had but that's why he's a bench player and not one of the top 5 PGs in the league. I just don't quite understand what people expect. FVV isn't Lowry. I suppose I'm in the minority in thinking he's done just fine filling in until Kyle gets back.

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              • slaw wrote: View Post
                I guess I don't quite understand why people are so down on FVV (or at least it seems that way). He's the exact same guy he was last year except he's not shooting it quite as good. Otherwise, there really isn't any difference. Defensively, he's smart, makes his rotations and can lock in on small guards. He has trouble against big guards from time to time. Duh. Offensively, teams are locked into him this year in a way they weren't last year, he's playing against tougher competition as the starting PG on a team everyone is out to beat, and he's being asked to take on the role of the team's best playmaker and second-best player.

                For fuck's sake, he's doing fine. Yeah, he's had more bad games than Lowry would have had but that's why he's a bench player and not one of the top 5 PGs in the league. I just don't quite understand what people expect. FVV isn't Lowry. I suppose I'm in the minority in thinking he's done just fine filling in until Kyle gets back.
                People are debating the role, more than anything. But Freddy himself kind of summed it up after the Spurs debacle. Team needed more displicine & structure, which we saw last night running nice PnRs with Serge. Some guys, like DanH, seem to think FVV should be used exclusively off-ball, rather than being used as traditional PG. Part of that depends on what your definition of a PG is, i.e. attacking (Lowry) or probing (Calderon). I think he needs to be used more like Calderon with more set plays, but Nurse prefers an attacking, freelancing style from FVV which IMO is partly to blame for the offense being out of rhythm recently. There's some middle ground in this debate.

                Also FVV's defense has definitely slipped this year, but he brought it last night. He has to at least do that when he's having those frequent bad games.

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                • Nothing wrong with FVV running the offence like he did with the bench last year - the bench offence was basically all off ball movement. So Fred would stand still dribbling the ball while Miles worked through screens to get open, and eventually the ball might swing to Wright to run a late PnR with Poeltl or to Siakam to attack off the dribble. That's fine. The problem has been him trying to run pick and roll and trying to attack the defence off of it. He can't find rollers, and he can't finish at the rim, and teams knowing that can contest his pull up jumpers too easily.

                  I have however been saying that both the bench guards could use a pick and pop big because the pocket pass is easier and it could open some space on drives. Nice to see Fred find Ibaka a few times. But anyone watching would have seen that they mostly initiated the offence through Kawhi (certainly during the stretches where the offence was clicking) with Fred getting his best looks as spot ups. As it should be.
                  twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                  • The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post
                    Why Masai is very hesitant to include him in acquiring Beal. I am wondering however who is the main salary filler to match Beal’s.
                    Should I be reading that as "Why is Masai very hesitant to include him in acquiring Beal?"

                    Pascal will not be included in a Beal trade until very close to the trade deadline, because we need JV back from injury to have enough frontcourt depth to withstand the loss of Siakam, short of an additional trade we haven't foreseen yet. An immediate trade for Beal involving someone from our frontcourt isn't practical unless unless the Wizards are willing to take an injured JV back - something which they may not be willing to do.

                    That being said, it's unlikely that Masai trades Pascal before Kawhi has signed his next contract. Pascal's present value next to Kawhi is almost as significant as Danny Green's is in terms of providing versatile offence and strong hard-nosed defense. Conversely, if Kawhi signs elsewhere and we go into a retooling or rebuilding mode, Pascal is the the sort of versatile player who will fit in well with whatever other pieces we acquire, especially if we are able to trade Kyle for pieces or picks.

                    That Pascal has such value to a team, even as (or even "especially as") a secondary piece, and as a player who may not have reached his peak, is of course why he has such value to other teams and why he is going to be part of nearly every significant trade inquiry. But it's also why the Raptors should have a pretty good idea of the direction of the team going forward before they seriously consider trading him. As much as Beal is a prodigious offensive talent, I don't believe he is the right kind of talent to set the direction of the franchise by; if he was, the Wizards would have never been able to delude themselves into the monstrous contract for Wall that has put them into the sell-off mode they are currently in.

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                    • DanH wrote: View Post
                      Nothing wrong with FVV running the offence like he did with the bench last year - the bench offence was basically all off ball movement. So Fred would stand still dribbling the ball while Miles worked through screens to get open, and eventually the ball might swing to Wright to run a late PnR with Poeltl or to Siakam to attack off the dribble. That's fine. The problem has been him trying to run pick and roll and trying to attack the defence off of it. He can't find rollers, and he can't finish at the rim, and teams knowing that can contest his pull up jumpers too easily.

                      I have however been saying that both the bench guards could use a pick and pop big because the pocket pass is easier and it could open some space on drives. Nice to see Fred find Ibaka a few times. But anyone watching would have seen that they mostly initiated the offence through Kawhi (certainly during the stretches where the offence was clicking) with Fred getting his best looks as spot ups. As it should be.
                      Yup! All I'm saying is Fred is better at running the pick and roll with a pick and pop guy instead of a rick and roll guy like JV. It's an easier pass for him, especially with his height. And yes Kawhi definitely handled the ball and ran the sets way more than Fred down the stretch. I actually remember the couple times Fred initiated the pick and roll we got nothing when the game came down to the wire.
                      I relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.

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                      • DanH wrote: View Post
                        Nothing wrong with FVV running the offence like he did with the bench last year - the bench offence was basically all off ball movement. So Fred would stand still dribbling the ball while Miles worked through screens to get open, and eventually the ball might swing to Wright to run a late PnR with Poeltl or to Siakam to attack off the dribble. That's fine. The problem has been him trying to run pick and roll and trying to attack the defence off of it. He can't find rollers, and he can't finish at the rim, and teams knowing that can contest his pull up jumpers too easily.

                        I have however been saying that both the bench guards could use a pick and pop big because the pocket pass is easier and it could open some space on drives. Nice to see Fred find Ibaka a few times. But anyone watching would have seen that they mostly initiated the offence through Kawhi (certainly during the stretches where the offence was clicking) with Fred getting his best looks as spot ups. As it should be.
                        Yeah, but the common element you're missing here isn't FVV moving off-ball full-time.... it's ball movement and more discipline/structure on offense. That (in addition to defensive effort) was a key narrative from the starters last night post-game - even from Kawhi. Ball movement is what has been missing and FVV dribbing nowhere to start possessions and Kawhi pounding the ball are just symptoms of lack of ball movement, resulting in lack of rhythm. No coincidence that when we finally moved the ball last night, we shot 44% from 3 against a top 3 defense in the NBA, that's very long and athletic. Shooters can get into a shooting rhythm when they know the ball could be coming back to them.

                        Comment


                        • golden wrote: View Post
                          Yeah, but the common element you're missing here isn't FVV moving off-ball full-time.... it's ball movement and more discipline/structure on offense. That (in addition to defensive effort) was a key narrative from the starters last night post-game - even from Kawhi. Ball movement is what has been missing and FVV dribbing nowhere to start possessions and Kawhi pounding the ball are just symptoms of lack of ball movement, resulting in lack of rhythm. No coincidence that when we finally moved the ball last night, we shot 44% from 3 against a top 3 defense in the NBA, that's very long and athletic. Shooters can get into a shooting rhythm when they know the ball could be coming back to them.
                          Oh, I don't disagree with your point that the offense has been stagnant but I think it's very unfair to lay it all at FVV's feet. Sure, he sharea some of the responsibility but, again, he isn't an all-NBA caliber point guard. He's a solid back-up. Everyone should be accountable, of course, but it seems to me he's taken more than his fair share of the blame.

                          Comment


                          • slaw wrote: View Post
                            Oh, I don't disagree with your point that the offense has been stagnant but I think it's very unfair to lay it all at FVV's feet. Sure, he sharea some of the responsibility but, again, he isn't an all-NBA caliber point guard. He's a solid back-up. Everyone should be accountable, of course, but it seems to me he's taken more than his fair share of the blame.
                            You probably haven't been following the debate, but I haven't been laying it all at FVV's feet. I've been saying that Nurse has been giving FVV way too much freedom with the offense and that he needs more discipline, run more set plays and develop passing chemistry with his teammates, instead of trying to take guys off the dribble and create advantages (which he clearly can't do). My main issue with FVV is that he's clearly a replacement PG and a classic role player that needs Casey-like role cards, instead of being allowed to freelance and expose his obvious limitations. However, one thing I don't understand is why FVV can't develop better timing on the bounce pass with the roll man. When FVV starts the offense with the dribble drive attack that goes nowhere, I do feel like that sets the tone for whole offense.

                            Comment


                            • slaw wrote: View Post
                              I guess I don't quite understand why people are so down on FVV (or at least it seems that way). He's the exact same guy he was last year except he's not shooting it quite as good. Otherwise, there really isn't any difference. Defensively, he's smart, makes his rotations and can lock in on small guards. He has trouble against big guards from time to time. Duh. Offensively, teams are locked into him this year in a way they weren't last year, he's playing against tougher competition as the starting PG on a team everyone is out to beat, and he's being asked to take on the role of the team's best playmaker and second-best player.

                              For fuck's sake, he's doing fine. Yeah, he's had more bad games than Lowry would have had but that's why he's a bench player and not one of the top 5 PGs in the league. I just don't quite understand what people expect. FVV isn't Lowry. I suppose I'm in the minority in thinking he's done just fine filling in until Kyle gets back.
                              You got it. Fred is doing alright overall this season imo. Had his ups and downs and sometimes struggled a bit to run the pnr, but that's why he's Lowry's backup and not the other way around. When the offence doesn't look as fluid with FVV as opposed to Lowry, to me that speaks more to how good/important to this team Lowry is and not how "bad" FVV is. He's not Lowry. Fred is only 24, got some years ahead of him to fully master the running of an NBA offence but I think he's on the right track.

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                              • Just watched the full game on NBA TV. I know Pascal dropped 30pts in this one, but his basketball IQ is just low in comparison to the other good players on our team. He's getting by on mostly physical abilities and hustle right now...so much room to grow. His defense is awful at times.

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