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  • JawsGT wrote: View Post
    Gasol looked even more impressive in his second game. He deserves to start and he will i hope after the all star break. However, i don't think the so called problems of the starting unit is on serge. Serge has been awesome this season, as consistent as anyone not named danny green, and has filled his role admirably. After last seasons showing, i look at serge as being a revelation. No way i expected him to be nearly as good as he has been. He is clearly suited as a C, and should be playing there for 99% of his minutes. Nonetheless, we have a better option and so gasol should start. But the gasol/ibaka C combo is much better than the Ibaka/JV combo. And this coming from someone that had concerns about the trade and is a huge fan of JV.
    I wouldn't say the problem is Serge but I would say Gas has the greatest potential to change the dynamics of the starting 5, more than Serge or JV.
    "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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    • S.R. wrote: View Post
      I wouldn't say the problem is Serge but I would say Gas has the greatest potential to change the dynamics of the starting 5, more than Serge or JV.
      If we got a problem, I'd say it's a good problem.

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      • KeonClark wrote: View Post
        And fucked matt barnes wife

        And got beat up by matt barnes in his old houses backyard

        *ducks*
        Shes pretty hot. Derek Fisher can't pull, he basically hit the jackpot.

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        • planetmars wrote: View Post
          He shoots 34%.. League average is 35%. Yeah he's an excellent passer. That's great. But not something we needed. This isn't 2015. We pass now.

          It only became a good trade once we got Lin.

          Like I said Gasol is better than JV. Yet we also lost our backup PG.. and a shooter (yeah you can laugh, but CJ was shooting better than 45% after Jan 1).

          Definitely not a home run. I don't see that at all. Gasol is no longer an all-star. He's a good player but not an elite player anymore.
          He shoots 0.347 on 4 attempts per game. Those 4 attempts per game is in the top 25% of the NBA and way above average. Extremely important context you just glossed over. Being able to hit at league average on high volume is really good and what we needed.

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          • inthepaint wrote: View Post
            The success of the trade will be based on Gasol's health.

            Right now he looks like a re-energized stud that will give his all to this team, so right now it looks like a home run, and if the goal is all-in this year, then this is a win. That said, Gasol's injury history is not short, and when you're 34 you don't recover from them as quickly. If he's able to stay relatively healthy this year and next, then it was beyond worth it, but that (him staying healthy), is unfortunately far from a given.

            This is out his control, and out of Masai's control though, so given the circumstances (all-in year, Wright being a RFA next summer etc..), this was a good move.
            We know Gasol will play significantly more games than JV this year, so pretty tough to say he's more injury prone than JV.

            Gasol his last 3 seasons has played 74 games, 73 games, and 55 so far this year with 24 left to go so most likely 79 games this season. That does not look injury prone to me.

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            • Primer wrote: View Post
              He shoots 0.347 on 4 attempts per game. Those 4 attempts per game is in the top 25% of the NBA and way above average. Extremely important context you just glossed over. Being able to hit at league average on high volume is really good and what we needed.
              Okay so he's an average shooter then? Is having a center shoot 4 3's a game a good thing? I mean it might be if we had a guy like Giannis in the paint gobbling up all the rebounds from all his misses. But we don't.

              What we lose with Gasol is offensive efficiency, rebounding and rim protection. What we gain from Gasol is passing, IQ, all-around defense and outside shooting (and its gravity it creates). I guess it can be better depending on how much you value the things he brings versus the stuff that JV brought.

              Like I said though.. the trade is only a win because we got Lin. If we hadn't.. I would have preferred not to do the trade. And I'm not saying Lin is this great player.. just saying what CJ, Delon and JV as a whole brought us was more valuable than what Gasol brought us.

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              • DanH wrote: View Post
                There is definitely potential for the team to be far better with Gasol, if they use him correctly.

                Unfortunately, it will always be hard to compare to the team with JV, as that team would also have been much better had they used JV correctly.

                Still, the team is far more likely to use Gasol correctly than JV, and for that reason alone there should be plenty of optimism that this deal works out.

                And as for the Kawhi pitch, Gasol is a better piece for that. The sales pitch was always going to be depth for one year, then trying to add a top FA to play with Kawhi. Gasol next season may be worse than JV would have been, but assuming he's good enough this year for the Raptors to win enough to have a chance at re-signing Kawhi, there's no reason to think he'd be a negative in Kawhi's view for that one year where he would matter.
                A perfectly used JV is still way inferior to a mediocre used Gasol. Gasol can hit 3's at a good % on high volume, something JV was never going to be able to do. You can't ignore Gasol at the 3pt line like you can JV.

                Gasol is averarging 4.7 assists per game. The best JV has ever done is 1.1 and he's usually less than 1 per game. JV was never going to be able to facilitate like Gasol no matter how he was used. Gasol's passing ability massively opens up the offense and makes everything easier for everyone else. JV was never going to be able to do any of that.

                Gasol is also a much better defender than JV. His basketball IQ, positioning, everything is sooooo much better than JV. We won't have to sit Gasol for defensive purposes like we had to do constantly with JV.

                That's 3 huge things that Gasol provides that JV was never going to provide.

                JV is a better rebounder, but Gasol is still a damn good one and his positioning makes it easier for the rest of the team to get rebounds.

                No matter how we used JV he was never going to approach a Gasol caliber player, he just doesn't have the tools.

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                • planetmars wrote: View Post
                  Okay so he's an average shooter then? Is having a center shoot 4 3's a game a good thing? I mean it might be if we had a guy like Giannis in the paint gobbling up all the rebounds from all his misses. But we don't.

                  What we lose with Gasol is offensive efficiency, rebounding and rim protection. What we gain from Gasol is passing, IQ, all-around defense and outside shooting (and its gravity it creates). I guess it can be better depending on how much you value the things he brings versus the stuff that JV brought.

                  Like I said though.. the trade is only a win because we got Lin. If we hadn't.. I would have preferred not to do the trade. And I'm not saying Lin is this great player.. just saying what CJ, Delon and JV as a whole brought us was more valuable than what Gasol brought us.
                  I'd say he's an above average shooter because if you ask a lot of the guys shooting over 35% to take 4 threes a game their % would drop.

                  There are only 71 players in the NBA who take 4 or more 3's per game and have a higher 3P% than Gasol. The vast majority are guards and wings. Gasol is an elite 3P shooter for a front court player, and in my opinion above average in general because only 71 guys are doing it better than him.

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                  • JV-Stans; he's gone.

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                    • Primer wrote: View Post
                      I'd say he's an above average shooter because if you ask a lot of the guys shooting over 35% to take 4 threes a game their % would drop.

                      There are only 71 players in the NBA who take 4 or more 3's per game and have a higher 3P% than Gasol. The vast majority are guards and wings. Gasol is an elite 3P shooter for a front court player, and in my opinion above average in general because only 71 guys are doing it better than him.
                      71 is a big population.. how many get the usage he does? Even if he was above average he's not elite at it. It's something he can do. But is that skill really better than the efficiency that JV brings or the rebounds (especially offensive ones) he grabs?

                      For you it's cut and dry.. for me it's not. I think the value Gasol brings over JV is better for the team overall.. but it's not like the difference of DeMar to Kawhi. And I don't think that increase in value is offset by the losses to Wright and CJ. I think we paid the bigger price.

                      That's why my hope was that Masai had already gotten Lin's agent involved before the trade. If he made the trade and then scrambled to replace Wright.. and ended up with someone useless (like a Lorenzo Brown) I would have been pissed.

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                      • planetmars wrote: View Post
                        Okay so he's an average shooter then? Is having a center shoot 4 3's a game a good thing? I mean it might be if we had a guy like Giannis in the paint gobbling up all the rebounds from all his misses. But we don't.

                        What we lose with Gasol is offensive efficiency, rebounding and rim protection. What we gain from Gasol is passing, IQ, all-around defense and outside shooting (and its gravity it creates). I guess it can be better depending on how much you value the things he brings versus the stuff that JV brought.

                        Like I said though.. the trade is only a win because we got Lin. If we hadn't.. I would have preferred not to do the trade. And I'm not saying Lin is this great player.. just saying what CJ, Delon and JV as a whole brought us was more valuable than what Gasol brought us.
                        Do we really lose rim protection? Gasol is a much headier defender, and uses his body at the correct angle. I also imagine he'll get a much friendlier playoff whistle than JV and wont be sending guys to the line as much. I'm much more comfortable with the defensive situation in every way.
                        It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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                        • Are people still arguing that Gasol is not a massive upgrade to this team? I feel like I'm about to turn into Superjudge for a post....

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                          • KeonClark wrote: View Post
                            Do we really lose rim protection? Gasol is a much headier defender, and uses his body at the correct angle. I also imagine he'll get a much friendlier playoff whistle than JV and wont be sending guys to the line as much. I'm much more comfortable with the defensive situation in every way.
                            JV's defensive FG% for shooters less than 6 feet is 46.3%. For Gasol it's 58.8%. JV was better last year too (55.2% compared to 57.9%). Fouls per game are the same 2.7 each this year.. 2.5 each last year.

                            Gasol plays more minutes so in general fouls less. So your point still stands there.

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                            • KeonClark wrote: View Post
                              Do we really lose rim protection? Gasol is a much headier defender, and uses his body at the correct angle. I also imagine he'll get a much friendlier playoff whistle than JV and wont be sending guys to the line as much. I'm much more comfortable with the defensive situation in every way.
                              Yep. JV for Gasol is an offense-for-defense tradeoff. Rim protection is just one part of defense. All the impact stats show Gasol benefiting the defense, and JV benefiting the offense. That said, you have to give the edge to Gasol for the key intangibles he brings with his playmaking ability and defensive leadership. He could be the guy to help unlock the potential & chemistry on both ends, which we've only seen glimpses of.

                              I also expect expect that Gasol will become one of the defacto team leaders by the time the playoffs roll around. You can already see it - the respect Gasol commands on the court, from his teammates, opposing players and even refs. He's a leader and we're missing that, since nobody knows where Lowry's head is at these days.

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                              • golden wrote: View Post
                                Yep. JV for Gasol is an offense-for-defense tradeoff. Rim protection is just one part of defense. All the impact stats show Gasol benefiting the defense, and JV benefiting the offense. That said, you have to give the edge to Gasol for the key intangibles he brings with his playmaking ability and defensive leadership. He could be the guy to help unlock the potential & chemistry on both ends, which we've only seen glimpses of.

                                I also expect expect that Gasol will become one of the defacto team leaders by the time the playoffs roll around. You can already see it - the respect Gasol commands on the court, from his teammates, opposing players and even refs. He's a leader and we're missing that, since nobody knows where Lowry's head is at these days.
                                My only point I was making above is essentially to the bold here. I wasn't suggesting JV is a better player than Gasol, nor more varied in skill set. I'm saying that comparing the team with Gasol to the team with JV will be difficult, because we didn't get enough sample with JV consistently enough to make that easy. And because those glimpses of potential and chemistry on both ends we HAVE seen, have come almost exclusively when JV has played with the starters. Which suggests that perhaps JV's specific skill set might have been key to unlocking that potential. And if so, Gasol's overall better player status may not unlock the same potential within the team.

                                Or, as we should all be hoping, he unlocks an even higher threshold for this team than previously seen. That would be amazing. It's just not a good idea to assume that because Gasol brings different things from JV that the team will be significantly better off for it. Hope for that? Sure. Expect it even? Whatever floats your boat. But it's not a given.

                                Just another reason why I can't wait to see Gasol log heavy minutes with the starters. I want to see how this is going to work, because if they can figure a way to maximize this it could be amazing.
                                twitter.com/dhackett1565

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