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  • Yeah and remember that the Grizzlies are crap and going nowhere and the Raptors are supposed to be title contending. Or maybe we should be salivating over Vucevic's 21-12-4 that he's averaging this year too

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    • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
      Yeah and remember that the Grizzlies are crap and going nowhere and the Raptors are supposed to be title contending. Or maybe we should be salivating over Vucevic's 21-12-4 that he's averaging this year too
      Wasn't Gasol's team crap too? Hard to build around a big these days. Need a dominant guard/wing IMO.

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      • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
        Yeah and remember that the Grizzlies are crap and going nowhere and the Raptors are supposed to be title contending. Or maybe we should be salivating over Vucevic's 21-12-4 that he's averaging this year too
        I mean I dont see why we should take anything away from Vucevic or JV for playing well on a bad team. Nobody is saying they are franchise cornerstones capable of leading any team to the finals. Hell Anthony Davis cant even take a mediocre squad to the playoffs.

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        • Mack North wrote: View Post
          Gasol in 3 games as a Rap - 5 assists

          JV last night - 5 assists

          Just sayin'!
          Powell missed like 3 easy layups off those passes....

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          • Truth Teller wrote: View Post
            Powell missed like 3 easy layups off those passes....
            per game too lol. The guy could of had like 15 assists over two games

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            • Is Gasol back in Toronto? I saw an interview where he said he'd be in Memphis over the All Star weekend to pack up his things. Hope he's using this week to learn our plays and practice with our team.

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              • LJ2 wrote: View Post
                Is Gasol back in Toronto? I saw an interview where he said he'd be in Memphis over the All Star weekend to pack up his things. Hope he's using this week to learn our plays and practice with our team.
                I hope so.. but I'm not sure how much time teams get with their players during this break. How many practices are allowed for example? I don't think we can rely on the all-star break for Gasol to get into a groove with the team. I think it will be a slow process.. Good thing is we get a lot of breaks between games (only two b2b's remaining). Gasol and Lin are pro's.. don't think they'd need much time at all to get acclimated.

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                • The biggest thing I'm looking for is for Gasol to START, starting next game.

                  So far theyve literally just plugged him into jv's spot, 19 or 20 min on the bench. This better be a case of "getting him adjusted in slowly" and NOT a case of "afraid to rock the boat"

                  Gasol >> Ibaka. Full stop.
                  It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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                  • This is an interesting breakdown of the Gasol for JV/Wright/Miles trade. Not saying I agree or disagree with the analysis, but this quote definitely stood out. @Planetmars: you can start worrying again. lol.

                    Valanciunas may be a better player than Gasol right now, and the gap between them only figures to be larger next season as Gasol continues to age into his 30’s.
                    And this....

                    Gasol vs Valanciunas
                    Did Memphis actually upgrade at center?

                    This season Valanciunas is besting Gasol in eFG%, true shooting percentage, and rebound rate, rebounds per 36 minutes, and points per 36 minutes. It is important to note that Valanciunas has logged only 564 minutes due to a thumb injury. RPM and PIPM still favor Gasol, however.

                    Per our grading system, Gasol has the better assortment of career grades dating back to the 2013-14 season. Clearly Valanciunas was off to a poor start this year, but the 2017-18 season favors him over Gasol in a blowout. It is also more likely Valanciunas bounces back to his prior performance level than Gasol given the discrepancy in age (26 vs. 34).

                    You’ll likely notice Valancunias did not get off to a rocky start as an interior defender. His A grade will fit right in with the Grit n’ Grind culture. In fact, among players that have appeared in at least 25 games this season, and are defending at least 4 shots within 6 feet of the basket per game, Valanciunas is sporting the best defended field goal percentage on such shots in the entire league.

                    Valanciunas is a downgrade as a stretch big (read; he isn’t one), as well as a playmaker. He will never have enough time to develop the telepathic chemistry Mike Conley has with Gasol in the pick n’ roll. Still, Valanciunas will be an upgrade as a rolling big and offensive rebounder. The offensive rebounding contribution is huge, as Memphis ranks 29th in the league in offensive rebound rate.

                    Should Valanciunas end up the superior player in 2018-19, it shouldn’t come as much of a surprise. Valanciunas was projected to be significantly better this season based on PIPM data.
                    https://www.bball-index.com/examinin...of-marc-gasol/

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                    • The reality is JV is under-rated as heck.

                      I feel the trade was the right move for us given the all-in stage of the team, but when you consider everything (especially age), the upgrade is not as clear-cut as many people think. I think this is one of those trades where both teams are better off, which is a sign of a good trade. A lot of it will hinge of his ability to stay healthy, but Gasol's experience, playmaking and calming presence on the floor is what this team needs this year.
                      ==Glad to have doubted the doubters==

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                      • Not sure if the grit and grind style is something Memphis continues with, but JV was built for that. That and playing for an American team gets him a lot of (hopefully) good exposure.

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                        • Look, I love JV and his hyperefficiency, but there's a bit of a "per 36" problem using his recent numbers. Mobility issues have limited his usage the last couple of years to favourable match ups only. In those match ups, he excels. What would his numbers look like at 30+ mpg like Gasol? It won't just be an extrapolation of his hyperefficiency, it will include a bunch of minutes against undersized, mobile 5's with outside range. This is what's become the crux of the JV problem. He's great in his role and against another traditional big, but the evolution of the league has limited his usability. Gasol is slightly more versatile and should be able to be on the floor more.
                          "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                          • S.R. wrote: View Post
                            Look, I love JV and his hyperefficiency, but there's a bit of a "per 36" problem using his recent numbers. Mobility issues have limited his usage the last couple of years to favourable match ups only. In those match ups, he excels. What would his numbers look like at 30+ mpg like Gasol? It won't just be an extrapolation of his hyperefficiency, it will include a bunch of minutes against undersized, mobile 5's with outside range. This is what's become the crux of the JV problem. He's great in his role and against another traditional big, but the evolution of the league has limited his usability. Gasol is slightly more versatile and should be able to be on the floor more.
                            Which just circles back to the start Gasol argument. The whole point of this trade is not to upgrade the JV minutes, and as noted it's somewhat questionable whether those would be upgraded at all. The point is that Gasol should be able to play heavy minutes while providing similar big-C benefits to what JV provided (plus some additional stuff with his passing) because he can defend more matchups.

                            I personally don't buy that JV could not have played a lot more than he did, nor that the team couldn't succeed with him matched up against smaller C's. But assuming that thinking was the logic behind the move, Gasol needs to start and play significant minutes every game for it to make sense.

                            And that all leaves aside the obvious maximization of Gasol's greatest skill with better scorers and shooters around him in the starting lineup.
                            twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                            • yeah, it all comes down to how Gasol will be used offensively and how much time he spends on the floor with the starters. If he is only used as a JV replacement, then I would question the value of the trade. But if/when he starts, he can add so much more to the offence than what JV could have, even if JV was starting. Furthermore, Gasol's contributions defensively go far beyond the opponents FG% within 5ft of the basket or whatever. He's a leader, he's vocal, and he will help shut down actions just by being present on the floor and directing traffic. I love JV, but you gotta believe that if used properly, Gasol has the potential to be the greater impact player on this team.

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                              • DanH wrote: View Post
                                Which just circles back to the start Gasol argument. The whole point of this trade is not to upgrade the JV minutes, and as noted it's somewhat questionable whether those would be upgraded at all. The point is that Gasol should be able to play heavy minutes while providing similar big-C benefits to what JV provided (plus some additional stuff with his passing) because he can defend more matchups.

                                I personally don't buy that JV could not have played a lot more than he did, nor that the team couldn't succeed with him matched up against smaller C's. But assuming that thinking was the logic behind the move, Gasol needs to start and play significant minutes every game for it to make sense.

                                And that all leaves aside the obvious maximization of Gasol's greatest skill with better scorers and shooters around him in the starting lineup.
                                Pretty much nailed it Dan. I think JV got painted as a weak defender after years of playing with poor perimeter defenders and poor help defense. He was put in the position of having to clean up too many of other peoples mistakes. He was not good with stretch bigs, no argument. But I sure did get sick and tired of watching him rotate over to help on a blow by and see no one but Lowry try to pick up his man.

                                Having said that, both you and inthepaint that Gasol is an "all in for this year" move and was the correct trade if it leads to a good finish for the Raptors (at least making the conference finals).

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