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  • KHD wrote: View Post
    trade continues to look worse and worse.
    Does it? I'd say the upside and downside of the trade is about the same now as it was at the time. Gasol's playmaking is fitting just as well with the starters as you'd hope, and as they get used to each other we should see the turnovers drop and the resulting offence improve even further, especially if Serge gets more comfortable with the bench role - a role he ideally would have had all season to get used to if JV stayed healthy and the platoon continued. The defence... kind of hinges on guys stepping it up in the playoffs. So we'll see. Again, true a month and a half ago, though.

    Nothing JV is doing in Memphis is a surprise. We knew Delon was good, the concern was paying him this summer. CJ is CJ, we don't really miss him in any tangible fashion.

    There's every chance the trade blows up and has made the team worse. But anyone expecting Gasol to score consistently for this team was not paying attention. Sadly, seems to apply to the coaching staff, who took a few weeks to figure out not to use Gasol like JV.
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    • Raptor Jesus wrote: View Post

      I kinda feel like MU has been down this road with memphis a few times, they keep wanting more expecting a bigger market and we keep coming back saying here's jv+

      So MU was looking at the rest of the easts moves, the situ and then goes f it and finally marcs up north.
      Question ? Lets say after making the trade Masai put Gasol on the trade market . What would he get for a 25 million dollar Centre who has maybe 2 years remaining in those legs ? Or if he called very GM and said I want to give up JV Wright and Miles .. What can you give me .. I think Masai really wanted Gasol and had tunnel vision ...

      I still think Masai was anticipating he would get what he needed in the buyout market but like always T.O didn't get the " A " list of the buyouts .
      Last edited by guyroch; Wed Mar 27th, 2019, 11:41 AM.

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      • guyroch wrote: View Post

        Question ? Lets say after making the trade Masai put Gasol on the trade market . What would he get for a 25 million dollar Centre who has maybe 2 years remaining in those legs ? Or if he called very GM and said I want to give up JV Wright and Miles .. What can you give me .. I think Masai really wanted Gasol and had tunnel vision ...

        I still think Masai was anticipating he would get what he needed in the buyout market but like always T.O didn't get the " A " list of the buyouts .
        Question? Let's say after a great showing by the Raps in the ECF or finals, Masai puts Gasol on the trade market. What would he get then? Because anything short of winning a chip this year and changes will have to be made again.

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        • guyroch wrote: View Post

          Question ? Lets say after making the trade Masai put Gasol on the trade market . What would he get for a 25 million dollar Centre who has maybe 2 years remaining in those legs ? Or if he called very GM and said I want to give up JV Wright and Miles .. What can you give me .. I think Masai really wanted Gasol and had tunnel vision ...

          I still think Masai was anticipating he would get what he needed in the buyout market but like always T.O didn't get the " A " list of the buyouts .
          It's not as simple as analyzing If we would be offered the equivalent of what we paid. It was a situational trade. Jv is a better scorer, gasol raises our ceiling. Wright and miles are replacement level players.
          It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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          • DanH wrote: View Post

            Does it? I'd say the upside and downside of the trade is about the same now as it was at the time. Gasol's playmaking is fitting just as well with the starters as you'd hope, and as they get used to each other we should see the turnovers drop and the resulting offence improve even further, especially if Serge gets more comfortable with the bench role - a role he ideally would have had all season to get used to if JV stayed healthy and the platoon continued. The defence... kind of hinges on guys stepping it up in the playoffs. So we'll see. Again, true a month and a half ago, though.

            Nothing JV is doing in Memphis is a surprise. We knew Delon was good, the concern was paying him this summer. CJ is CJ, we don't really miss him in any tangible fashion.

            There's every chance the trade blows up and has made the team worse. But anyone expecting Gasol to score consistently for this team was not paying attention. Sadly, seems to apply to the coaching staff, who took a few weeks to figure out not to use Gasol like JV.
            Good points. Comparing JV's performance to Gasol's is kinda like comparing apples to oranges as they have two totally different roles. In Memphis JV is a primary scorer, playing on a weak team where the opponents generally don't give it their best effort (example: recent OKC game). Gasol is not a primary scorer (5th option?) and opponents are typically putting in a solid effort against the #2 team in the league. The one aspect that I would like to see more from Gasol is defensive rebounding.

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            • Some positives from Gasol's passing. But is passing all we got him for?

              All man. All amazing.

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              • JV is killing it in Memphis. Yes Gasol is a great passer, but Im not really looking to see my centre passing too often...

                JV dominates inside... he would likely be coming off the bench and Ibaka played very well starting this year... when it was a big big man then you switch for JV.

                Gasol will get you vet presence in the playoffs no doubt, this is really where his value will come full circle.

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                • can Marc replicate his Memphis numbers if he averages the same minutes as he got there?

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                  • JV is killing it in Memphis.... I miss the stiff

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                    • rightsideup wrote: View Post
                      can Marc replicate his Memphis numbers if he averages the same minutes as he got there?
                      His per-36 rates in MEM this year versus in TOR:

                      MEM: 17/9/5 on 54 TS%
                      TOR: 14/10/6 on 55 TS%

                      He's been essentially the same player. No one should be remotely surprised by what Gasol has provided here. This is what the Raptors traded for.
                      twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                      • Superjudge wrote: View Post
                        JV is killing it in Memphis.... I miss the stiff
                        Ha Ha Ha. I see what you did there.

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                        • sanyo wrote: View Post
                          JV is killing it in Memphis. Yes Gasol is a great passer, but Im not really looking to see my centre passing too often...

                          JV dominates inside... he would likely be coming off the bench and Ibaka played very well starting this year... when it was a big big man then you switch for JV.

                          Gasol will get you vet presence in the playoffs no doubt, this is really where his value will come full circle.
                          JV putting up numbers when he gets touches and minutes isn't a surprise. The question has always been if that can be turned into winning consistently against high level competition. Case and point last nights game where he has a huge night and Memphis still loses by 15. Raptors weren't able to do it. Good luck to Memphis if they plan on building around the big fella.

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                          • LJ2 wrote: View Post

                            JV putting up numbers when he gets touches and minutes isn't a surprise. The question has always been if that can be turned into winning consistently against high level competition. Case and point last nights game where he has a huge night and Memphis still loses by 15. Raptors weren't able to do it. Good luck to Memphis if they plan on building around the big fella.
                            You don't build around JV. He's a role player.. but a good one. Just like Gasol is a role player now (another good one, but different). The goal of an NBA team is to create a winner and in order to do that you need guys that are good at different things. If everyone was the same you probably wouldn't do so well.

                            The biggest issue JV always had was defense.. yet I think that gets overblown. He's not a good PnR defender but you can scheme around his flaws. We had a top 5 defense last year where JV started every game (when healthy). A team that also had DeMar out on the wing.

                            What I do know is that this team early in the year was so damn good.. putting up better numbers than the Bucks. While still trying to integrate Kawhi and Danny. JV got hurt and we scuffled a bit.

                            Marc brings us IQ, passing and vet leadership. Maybe those are more important for us in the playoffs.. maybe not. But the trade was not a home run for us either way. It almost wasn't needed. What we lost was a character guy that was okay to play 20mpg.. rebound like a boss, and give us efficient scoring in the paint.

                            Gasol and Memphis played the Warriors twice this year.. he was a -16 in the first game and a -10 in the second. Memphis lost both games. The first by 16 points, the second by 5.

                            This doesn't even bring up the fact that Delon is 10x the player Lin is. And for those saying we didn't have the money for Delon.. we could have just pulled his QO and let him become a UFA. We basically had a "team" option on his contract. Lin isn't back next year either most likely.

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                            • planetmars wrote: View Post

                              You don't build around JV. He's a role player.. but a good one. Just like Gasol is a role player now (another good one, but different). The goal of an NBA team is to create a winner and in order to do that you need guys that are good at different things. If everyone was the same you probably wouldn't do so well.

                              The biggest issue JV always had was defense.. yet I think that gets overblown. He's not a good PnR defender but you can scheme around his flaws. We had a top 5 defense last year where JV started every game (when healthy). A team that also had DeMar out on the wing.

                              What I do know is that this team early in the year was so damn good.. putting up better numbers than the Bucks. While still trying to integrate Kawhi and Danny. JV got hurt and we scuffled a bit.

                              Marc brings us IQ, passing and vet leadership. Maybe those are more important for us in the playoffs.. maybe not. But the trade was not a home run for us either way. It almost wasn't needed. What we lost was a character guy that was okay to play 20mpg.. rebound like a boss, and give us efficient scoring in the paint.

                              Gasol and Memphis played the Warriors twice this year.. he was a -16 in the first game and a -10 in the second. Memphis lost both games. The first by 16 points, the second by 5.

                              This doesn't even bring up the fact that Delon is 10x the player Lin is. And for those saying we didn't have the money for Delon.. we could have just pulled his QO and let him become a UFA. We basically had a "team" option on his contract. Lin isn't back next year either most likely.
                              Yeah I think Masai these days can be seen like this in his office. I really really hope Marc does magically show up in a big way (at least defensivelly) in the playoffs, not betting on it though. It's interesting to check Raptors record in three stages (JV was playing, JV was injured, JV was traded), I think overall impact is not a coincidence. Lin is Lin.


                              Last edited by RandomGuy; Thu Mar 28th, 2019, 10:01 AM.
                              Official Pope of the Raptors sponsored by MLSE.

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                              • RandomGuy wrote: View Post
                                It's interesting to check Raptors record in three stages (JV was playing, JV was injured, JV was traded), I think overall impact is not a coincidence.
                                For reference:

                                With JV (30 GP): 23-7 (63 W pace), 113.2 ORTG (2nd), 105.3 DRTG (7th), +7.9 RTG (2nd)
                                JV hurt (26 GP): 17-9 (54 W pace), 111.5 ORTG (11th), 109.5 DRTG (13th), +1.9 RTG (12th)
                                JV traded (19 GP): 12-7 (52 W pace), 111.4 ORTG (11th), 106.9 DRTG (5th), +4.5 RTG (7th)

                                Keep in mind Lowry was hurt for about a third of the JV hurt sample. When Lowry was playing (ie excluding the 10 games he missed and the 1 Philly game in the middle he forced his way back to), the JV hurt sample is 11-4 (60 W pace), 113.6 ORTG (9th), 107 DRTG (4th), +6.6 RTG (5th) - more in line with the JV traded sample except for winning more than the point differential would imply.
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