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  • G__Deane
    replied
    After next season we need to consider moving forward with FVV and Terence Davis or other more inexpensive option and regretably let Kyle walk.
    You can't be left holding a $30M declining asset and you can't keep both FVV and Kyle. Big boy pants and tough moves needed.

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  • DanH
    replied
    LJ2 wrote: View Post

    Even if Lowry came back at a discount or do you mean without Lowry coming back?
    Oh that's entirely without Lowry. If we want to leave room to sign Lowry at MLE-ish sort of deal we absolutely can't sign Serge, even if we dump Powell.

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  • LJ2
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post

    That 50+ win team had a) Kawhi Leonard and b) Jonas Valanciunas (for half the season). They still played at a 52 win pace while JV was hurt, but they played at a 68 win pace with him in the lineup, and both samples have Kawhi freaking Leonard.

    We could sign FVV and Ibaka. But any deal for Ibaka is probably both too long and too expensive for our 2021 plans even if we shed Powell. Leaving aside the concerns about Ibaka already being a downgrade from the alternatives he's gone up against the past couple seasons and his potential to drop off fast from here. That potential is there for Gasol too, of course, but that's why we limit the discussion about re-signing him to a one year deal.
    Even if Lowry came back at a discount or do you mean without Lowry coming back?

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  • LJ2
    replied
    G__Deane wrote: View Post

    You're asking Boucher to take JV's role in that scenario. Boucher can grab rebounds but JV is a physical 15-20 and 7-10 guy
    Actually, it would be Ibaka taking JV's role since Siakam is our PF now. Lowry, FVV, OG, Siakam and Serge can still get ya 50 wins in the East can't they?

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  • DanH
    replied
    G__Deane wrote: View Post

    I think he's likely referring to the 50+ win teams prior to Kawhi too lol (2015-16 2016-17)
    They were almost at that level in the couple prior years as well
    Hence the inclusion of JV in the discussion. And Serge was a PF or not on the team in those prior seasons.

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  • G__Deane
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post

    That 50+ win team had a) Kawhi Leonard and b) Jonas Valanciunas (for half the season). They still played at a 52 win pace while JV was hurt, but they played at a 68 win pace with him in the lineup, and both samples have Kawhi freaking Leonard.

    We could sign FVV and Ibaka. But any deal for Ibaka is probably both too long and too expensive for our 2021 plans even if we shed Powell. Leaving aside the concerns about Ibaka already being a downgrade from the alternatives he's gone up against the past couple seasons and his potential to drop off fast from here. That potential is there for Gasol too, of course, but that's why we limit the discussion about re-signing him to a one year deal.
    I think he's likely referring to the 50+ win teams prior to Kawhi too lol (2015-16 2016-17)
    They were almost at that level in the couple prior years as well

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  • DanH
    replied
    LJ2 wrote: View Post

    Well, we were a 50+ win team before Marc got here. Could we sign FVV and Ibaka without going over the tax, if we let Marc walk?
    That 50+ win team had a) Kawhi Leonard and b) Jonas Valanciunas (for half the season). They still played at a 52 win pace while JV was hurt, but they played at a 68 win pace with him in the lineup, and both samples have Kawhi freaking Leonard.

    We could sign FVV and Ibaka. But any deal for Ibaka is probably both too long and too expensive for our 2021 plans even if we shed Powell. Leaving aside the concerns about Ibaka already being a downgrade from the alternatives he's gone up against the past couple seasons and his potential to drop off fast from here. That potential is there for Gasol too, of course, but that's why we limit the discussion about re-signing him to a one year deal.

    Leave a comment:


  • G__Deane
    replied
    LJ2 wrote: View Post

    Well, we were a 50+ win team before Marc got here. Could we sign FVV and Ibaka without going over the tax, if we let Marc walk?
    You're asking Boucher to take JV's role in that scenario. Boucher can grab rebounds but JV is a physical 15-20 and 7-10 guy

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  • LJ2
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post

    Hernandez has been hurt most of the season, he's only played in 9 games. He definitely is a work in progress on offence. Has been pretty good defensively when he's played though, and has shown more nose for rebounds than I expected based on his scouting report.

    Boucher is definitely one of those backup Cs who would struggle to start even as an injury replacement just with his limitations and style of play. Though with a few big strong forwards they could probably survive (Rondae is a guy who might find himself taking a one year again, maybe bring him back short term), with OG and Pascal both capable of putting up enough resistance to let the help defence get to where it needs to be. I think the team is better off just testing Hernandez in that role though.

    Whenever I dive deep on the C position it leads me back to the Raps needing to find a serviceable big who can eat minutes via trade. But then I start looking for candidates and it's rough out there.
    Well, we were a 50+ win team before Marc got here. Could we sign FVV and Ibaka without going over the tax, if we let Marc walk?

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  • DanH
    replied
    LJ2 wrote: View Post

    Eventually is next season, so yes we absolutely need to see something get done this summer. I would trust Boucher to get some back up C minutes but the problem with signing Marc is going to be that the back up C will need to be a starter for large chunks of the season. I don't see that translating to regular season success with Boucher as the primary C and will Boucher even come back on a one year? You're probably keeping track of Hernandez' progress closer than I am, but what I'm hearing is that he's not looking good at all. Like he's showing less progress than Bruno if what I'm reading is accurate.
    Hernandez has been hurt most of the season, he's only played in 9 games. He definitely is a work in progress on offence. Has been pretty good defensively when he's played though, and has shown more nose for rebounds than I expected based on his scouting report.

    Boucher is definitely one of those backup Cs who would struggle to start even as an injury replacement just with his limitations and style of play. Though with a few big strong forwards they could probably survive (Rondae is a guy who might find himself taking a one year again, maybe bring him back short term), with OG and Pascal both capable of putting up enough resistance to let the help defence get to where it needs to be. I think the team is better off just testing Hernandez in that role though.

    Whenever I dive deep on the C position it leads me back to the Raps needing to find a serviceable big who can eat minutes via trade. But then I start looking for candidates and it's rough out there.

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  • LJ2
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post

    Well, the Raps will eventually want to free up minutes, if not steady rotation minutes then at least injury sub minutes, for Hernandez at C. If we re-sign Marc (and we absolutely should, the regular season is less a concern than the playoffs), then the question is what you do for backup C. Do you try to get Boucher back on a deal that's either cheap enough to not really affect 2021 or a one year deal as well? Do you just find a veteran plug for a year?

    And all this ignores that we're going to need a solution at C in 2021. Maybe they just hand the backup minutes to Hernandez and see if he can hang, then have one less worry at C for 2021. Maybe they give Serge his desired long term deal if it comes in cheap enough, but cheap enough probably has to be MLE or lower, and I'm not sure what his market is going to be this summer, probably higher than that... Maybe they make a trade for a younger C who is locked in on a relatively cheap deal past summer 2021, where there is less risk of decline than with either of Serge or Marc, though who they give up in such a trade... The good news is centers are generally cheap in trade if their team wants to trade them, the trick is finding one who is good and young and cheap that a team is willing to trade.
    Eventually is next season, so yes we absolutely need to see something get done this summer. I would trust Boucher to get some back up C minutes but the problem with signing Marc is going to be that the back up C will need to be a starter for large chunks of the season. I don't see that translating to regular season success with Boucher as the primary C and will Boucher even come back on a one year? You're probably keeping track of Hernandez' progress closer than I am, but what I'm hearing is that he's not looking good at all. Like he's showing less progress than Bruno if what I'm reading is accurate.

    Leave a comment:


  • G__Deane
    replied
    You can't give Gasol more than a 1 year deal and I wouldn't do more than a 2 year deal with Serge either. You can't keep trotting tham and Kyle out for more years or this team will fall off the table. Some players tend to get old really fast, Masai's gonna have to make some good and savvy moves

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  • DanH
    replied
    LJ2 wrote: View Post
    It will be interesting to see what Ujiri does with our rotation at C this summer with both Gasol and Ibaka able to walk. A one year overpay will probably keep Gasol, but not sure how many games he'll be able to play since he's wearing down and seemingly needing a load management plan.

    Ibaka's situation is the more interesting one to me because he's still young enough and able bodied enough to play a full season as long as he's healthy. He's versatile enough to be your starting C or come off the bench to play at both C and PF. He's going to want a multi year contract.

    But really without both Gasol and Ibaka, we don't really get what we are accustomed to from the C position. One guy can't play the full season and the other doesn't provide the same impact or match-up as well against key playoff rivals.
    Well, the Raps will eventually want to free up minutes, if not steady rotation minutes then at least injury sub minutes, for Hernandez at C. If we re-sign Marc (and we absolutely should, the regular season is less a concern than the playoffs), then the question is what you do for backup C. Do you try to get Boucher back on a deal that's either cheap enough to not really affect 2021 or a one year deal as well? Do you just find a veteran plug for a year?

    And all this ignores that we're going to need a solution at C in 2021. Maybe they just hand the backup minutes to Hernandez and see if he can hang, then have one less worry at C for 2021. Maybe they give Serge his desired long term deal if it comes in cheap enough, but cheap enough probably has to be MLE or lower, and I'm not sure what his market is going to be this summer, probably higher than that... Maybe they make a trade for a younger C who is locked in on a relatively cheap deal past summer 2021, where there is less risk of decline than with either of Serge or Marc, though who they give up in such a trade... The good news is centers are generally cheap in trade if their team wants to trade them, the trick is finding one who is good and young and cheap that a team is willing to trade.

    Leave a comment:


  • LJ2
    replied
    It will be interesting to see what Ujiri does with our rotation at C this summer with both Gasol and Ibaka able to walk. A one year overpay will probably keep Gasol, but not sure how many games he'll be able to play since he's wearing down and seemingly needing a load management plan.

    Ibaka's situation is the more interesting one to me because he's still young enough and able bodied enough to play a full season as long as he's healthy. He's versatile enough to be your starting C or come off the bench to play at both C and PF. He's going to want a multi year contract.

    But really without both Gasol and Ibaka, we don't really get what we are accustomed to from the C position. One guy can't play the full season and the other doesn't provide the same impact or match-up as well against key playoff rivals.

    Leave a comment:


  • DanH
    replied
    The trick this summer is if FVV gets paid (he will, though hopefully nowhere near as much as he could), and we want to keep Gasol and maybe even Serge on short term (1 year) big salary deals, we actually end up in danger of going pretty significantly into the tax, which the team will obviously not want to do. Need two non-tax years in a row to reset the repeater tax clock, and if all goes well they will want to dive deep into the tax after the 2021-22 season.

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