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  • DanH wrote: View Post
    Well, in so far as I think Gasol cost us more offensively than he gave us defensively in round 2, he was useful in the ECF in a way that JV likely never would have been. That was the series the trade was made for (and this upcoming one, obviously), and it officially paid off, even though Gasol was a little uneven in the ECF as well - uneven is far better than how JV would likely have fared in that particular matchup. At best he'd have been minutes limited though effective, meaning more Ibaka minutes and although Serge came up huge at times in this series, that's still not a good thing.

    It's the reality that was true at the time of the trade - when the shots are falling, Gasol's value is awesome. When shooters miss and one of Kawhi/Siakam struggle with efficient volume scoring, the offence tends to struggle and can wash out a lot of the defensive gains.

    But that's not a big deal heading into a series with the Warriors. You have to hit your shots or you're screwed against them anyway. So, all in.
    But do you think just like how Gasol's great defence wasn't enough at times to make up for his lack of offence, do you think maybe JV's great offence wouldn't have been able to make up for his defence? And it just would have been the same issue but reversed? I know JV has improved a lot on the defensive end but I don't think he's close to Gasol level just from the eye test. Maybe stats say otherwise?
    I relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.

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    • GLF wrote: View Post

      But do you think just like how Gasol's great defence wasn't enough at times to make up for his lack of offence, do you think maybe JV's great offence wouldn't have been able to make up for his defence? And it just would have been the same issue but reversed? I know JV has improved a lot on the defensive end but I don't think he's close to Gasol level just from the eye test. Maybe stats say otherwise?
      I think that might have been true to some degree, but it's a pretty pessimistic take. JV has basically always done well against Embiid on both ends - assuming the Raptors would suddenly struggle with that match up seems more like sky-is-falling doom-saying than actual projection. And that ignores that the team's specific need in this series was inside scoring (and rebounding) and addressing those issues would have had a lot of value, even if there was a defensive hit. There's also the argument that the Raptors would not have played JV enough, which could be the case, and if so the deal is already a win even in the 76ers series (but that's more a coaching failing than a real judgment on the deal).

      I'm just glad Kawhi managed to get us past Philly, that was the toughest match-up stylistically with Gasol here and shooters cold, and now we're into match ups where Gasol's value should be way higher compared to JV.
      twitter.com/dhackett1565

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      • GLF wrote: View Post

        But do you think just like how Gasol's great defence wasn't enough at times to make up for his lack of offence, do you think maybe JV's great offence wouldn't have been able to make up for his defence? And it just would have been the same issue but reversed? I know JV has improved a lot on the defensive end but I don't think he's close to Gasol level just from the eye test. Maybe stats say otherwise?
        I was hesitant to say the deal was worth it even thru the Philly series. I've shut my mouth or stuffed it with crow. We can argue semantics and hypothetical, but we can't argue results. Gasol has been a key player in a run to the NBA finals. It's over. Another Masai win.
        It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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        • We got to the finals with this group. We may have with JV but we will never know now. I love JV, but the trade has worked out. We got to where we wanted to go.






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          • Gasol has hit timely 3s where I don't think JV would've. Also his defense and passing has been a god-send.

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            • I like JV but what we are seeing is elite playoff defensive team (probably at its peak best defense in the league) and I just can't imagine JV being an anchor to the best defense.
              All man. All amazing.

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              • DanH wrote: View Post

                I think that might have been true to some degree, but it's a pretty pessimistic take. JV has basically always done well against Embiid on both ends - assuming the Raptors would suddenly struggle with that match up seems more like sky-is-falling doom-saying than actual projection. And that ignores that the team's specific need in this series was inside scoring (and rebounding) and addressing those issues would have had a lot of value, even if there was a defensive hit. There's also the argument that the Raptors would not have played JV enough, which could be the case, and if so the deal is already a win even in the 76ers series (but that's more a coaching failing than a real judgment on the deal).

                I'm just glad Kawhi managed to get us past Philly, that was the toughest match-up stylistically with Gasol here and shooters cold, and now we're into match ups where Gasol's value should be way higher compared to JV.
                Oh yea I forgot JV has played well against Embiid in the past. Then yea you're right. The only thing I can say is playoffs and regular season are two different beats and a playoff Embiid could have been too much for JV. BUT Embiid was sick for most of it so maybe not. JV would not have gotten enough minutes though. That's on the coach and not JV but it's the reality. I don't think that's even in question. And if that's the case yes the Gasol trade is better for us. MAYBE Nurse learns his lesson as the playoffs go on and starts playing JV more but I don't know man I highly doubt it. How has JV been against Golden State? Do you think Marc is better for us in this series or JV?
                I relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.

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                • MixxAOR wrote: View Post
                  I like JV but what we are seeing is elite playoff defensive team (probably at its peak best defense in the league) and I just can't imagine JV being an anchor to the best defense.
                  That's the thing, I love JV but I don't know if the team defence as a whole would have been THIS good with him. And that's kind of what's been winning us games if we're being honest. And the thing about Gasol that has impressed me is he can guard on the perimeter WAY better than JV could. Which is interesting to me because they're both slow. It just seems Gasol has a lot more lateral quickness than JV. And against these big men who can shoot on the perimeter that we've been playing Gasol handles his own pretty well. I don't ever remember JV being able to handle those types of guys consistently and it cause the coaches to take him out of the game whether right or wrong
                  I relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.

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                  • KeonClark wrote: View Post

                    I was hesitant to say the deal was worth it even thru the Philly series. I've shut my mouth or stuffed it with crow. We can argue semantics and hypothetical, but we can't argue results. Gasol has been a key player in a run to the NBA finals. It's over. Another Masai win.
                    I agree and felt more or less the same throughout the Philly series. But the reality is we've been the 2nd best defence in the post season (against potent high-end offences like Bucks and Philly no less). And that happen in large because of Gasol. His ability to negate driving and passing lanes from opposing guards, while also shutting down opposing bigs is huge. He takes so much space away in the paint is palpable. There's basically no baseline activity on the opposing team when Gasol is on the floor, it's just suffocating. Our guards & wings gotta feel really confident having back there, so they can go shut down the perimeter, which takes the whole team defence to another level.

                    I didn't believe it at first either, but I gotta call it like it is. Without the level of defence we've had we wouldn't have been able to absorb the cold shooting nights we've had. But our defence has been the one anchor through it all, which is why we won the East.
                    Last edited by inthepaint; Mon May 27th, 2019, 12:41 PM.

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                    • GLF wrote: View Post

                      Oh yea I forgot JV has played well against Embiid in the past. Then yea you're right. The only thing I can say is playoffs and regular season are two different beats and a playoff Embiid could have been too much for JV. BUT Embiid was sick for most of it so maybe not. JV would not have gotten enough minutes though. That's on the coach and not JV but it's the reality. I don't think that's even in question. And if that's the case yes the Gasol trade is better for us. MAYBE Nurse learns his lesson as the playoffs go on and starts playing JV more but I don't know man I highly doubt it. How has JV been against Golden State? Do you think Marc is better for us in this series or JV?
                      Marc for sure. Marc was always acquired for these late rounds. JV had made leaps defensively but he'd need a couple more to be especially useful against the Bucks, let alone the Warriors. He'd probably have been able to stay afloat in Bogut minutes or take some tough Cousins minutes but as a heavy minute option I don't know whether he would have held up against GSW. We'll never know now, but even as a huge JV fan I'd far prefer Gasol (especially with how he has played since arriving in Toronto, which is far better than he'd played with MEM this season) in these later rounds.
                      twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                      • Great watching his double teams on Giannis - BOOM, he's there! Impressive how quick he can be when he needs to be.

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                        • DanH wrote: View Post

                          Marc for sure. Marc was always acquired for these late rounds. JV had made leaps defensively but he'd need a couple more to be especially useful against the Bucks, let alone the Warriors. He'd probably have been able to stay afloat in Bogut minutes or take some tough Cousins minutes but as a heavy minute option I don't know whether he would have held up against GSW. We'll never know now, but even as a huge JV fan I'd far prefer Gasol (especially with how he has played since arriving in Toronto, which is far better than he'd played with MEM this season) in these later rounds.
                          Agreed!
                          I relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.

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                          • Marc has to decide if he's going to opt in or out before Kawhi makes his decision. Pelicans are interested in him giving him some incentive to opt out and get a long term deal done to finish his career.

                            Gasol got his chip.. does he want another? Thursday will be an interesting day. If we keep Kawhi and lose Gasol, we're going to need to shop for a starting caliber big with little to no cap space. Hope he opts in.

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                            • planetmars wrote: View Post


                              Marc has to decide if he's going to opt in or out before Kawhi makes his decision. Pelicans are interested in him giving him some incentive to opt out and get a long term deal done to finish his career.

                              Gasol got his chip.. does he want another? Thursday will be an interesting day. If we keep Kawhi and lose Gasol, we're going to need to shop for a starting caliber big with little to no cap space. Hope he opts in.
                              He's made plenty of money and i wouldn't think he wants to go to a rebuildilng team to edn his career. I think he would rather go for another ring. He's gotta at least match his bro right? Or else pau will always be able to pull out that extra ring at thanksgiving dinner to talk shit.

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                              • bertarapsfan wrote: View Post

                                He's made plenty of money and i wouldn't think he wants to go to a rebuildilng team to edn his career. I think he would rather go for another ring. He's gotta at least match his bro right? Or else pau will always be able to pull out that extra ring at thanksgiving dinner to talk shit.
                                Problem is Masai/Raptors may only want him for one year.. so if he opts out we could just lose him anyway. Winning another ring is definitely an incentive to a vet.. but so is playing for another 3 years. And if he gets hurt next year he may not get another contract. I mean he might want to just keep playing like Pau is as well. And Pau's played for some bad teams after his LA glory years.

                                If he opts out and we don't retain him we move Serge back to starting C, and get a backup big for the MLE I suppose.. or try to trade Norm for a decent center. Still makes us ultimately worse than this past season though IMO.

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