Everything Marc Gasol

[golden]

I must admit that I wasn't a huge fan of the trade when I heard it. I still have my reservations. But his play during the Boston game, made me change my tune. The ball screens/ handoffs with lowry that he was setting by just being a big dude was special. They were leaving kyle wide open.

Nurse said early in the year, that he might just try something once or twice throughout the season that might be a playoff bread and butter play. Maybe he's doing that now. I sure as hell hope so. Also being an older dude, with his eye on a ring, maybe it's extra hard for Marc to get motivated to play the Cavs.

I'm trying to be optimistic here, if you can't tell. I feel the same way as I started this year about the team. We are better constructed for the playoffs, so until the playoffs I reserve my final judgement.

Losing JV, we lack rebounding and efficient inside scoring, so I'm not completely sold on the "better constructed for the playoffs" take. That was an added dimension we had. But we've turned ourselves into a make-or-miss team for better or worse. We can't play the inside game on either side of the ball, if that style is needed to grind out a game or two in the playoffs.

[S.R.]

Finally a sensible post. This is exactly where our heads should be at. Especially the last line.

I think "I'll give Masai the benefit of the doubt, I hope this works out" is where most fans have been at since the trade broke.

I was pissed at early rumours of Conley/Gasol for Lowry/JV. Trading two of the top players from a contender with a Finals chance for two of the top players from a mediocre team that might miss the playoffs seemed like a terrible idea if you're a fan of the contender. Was glad to hear it was just Gasol and was hopeful we'd see some kind of rejuvenation/return to form with him joining a much better Raptors squad. Still waiting...

[Beneperez]

Was glad to hear it was just Gasol and was hopeful we'd see some kind of rejuvenation/return to form with him joining a much better Raptors squad. Still waiting...

Agreed that it was better for just Gasol. I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who thought it was a good idea to trade Kyle (unless his back was much worse than reported).

About the main topic, and this isn't directed at you it's more an in general thing, I'm totally losing patience with people who can't see the bigger picture on this team. God damn. Raptors fans reactions just prove they've learnt nothing from years of disappointments. We loved our bench last year... lot of good it did us in the playoffs. We liked the fact that we won more regular season games... lot of good it did us in the playoffs. Our starting 5 looked really good in the regular season... you see where I'm going with this. As long as Marc is good health wise then there's no reason to go into panic mode or even criticise mode. He fits in with the bench or starters during the remaining regular season games? Who gives a shit. The main thing is that he's healthy and has the mental fortitude to sacrifice himself for whatever tactical/strategic reasons the coaching staff requires of him (which he def does... dude really wants a ring).

Rant over

[DanH]

Agreed that it was better for just Gasol. I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who thought it was a good idea to trade Kyle (unless his back was much worse than reported).

About the main topic, and this isn't directed at you it's more an in general thing, I'm totally losing patience with people who can't see the bigger picture on this team. God damn. Raptors fans reactions just prove they've learnt nothing from years of disappointments. We loved our bench last year... lot of good it did us in the playoffs. We liked the fact that we won more regular season games... lot of good it did us in the playoffs. Our starting 5 looked really good in the regular season... you see where I'm going with this. As long as Marc is good health wise then there's no reason to go into panic mode or even criticise mode. He fits in with the bench or starters during the remaining regular season games? Who gives a shit. The main thing is that he's healthy and has the mental fortitude to sacrifice himself for whatever tactical/strategic reasons the coaching staff requires of him (which he def does... dude really wants a ring).

Rant over

Our starting 5 looked really good in the playoffs too. Even with DeRozan's game imploding before us. Just because the coaching staff panicked and went away from it doesn't mean it wasn't working, it means the coaching staff was dumb.

We traded away our playoff security blanket to get Gasol. There's every reason to pay very close attention to what Gasol can bring to the team. And it will be impossible to fully judge until the playoffs, but the early signs are hardly encouraging.

[Maury]

Right now he’s missing easy shots and getting called for awful fouls that are keeping him off the floor making it even harder for him to get a rhythm. Also, being in and out of the starting lineup along with various injuries and rest to other guys means he’s playing with a different unit basically every game making it almost impossible for him to gain a rhythm. Hopefully with serge out he can get used to some of the guys he’s playing with. He clearly has a very strong chemistry with Kyle already and that’s great.

This is coming from someone who was really against the trade when it happens; I think he’ll be fine and we’ll probably be better for it.

[Codadav]

I have a question:

Since Marc so closely resembles Jokic' skillset, could the Raptors not be getting ideas from Denver's game video?

[Puffer]

I have a question:

Since Marc so closely resembles Jokic' skillset, could the Raptors not be getting ideas from Denver's game video?

I would bet someone is tasked with sorting out the best way to use Gasol and they are probably looking at any other player who has close to his skillset and videos of that players games against Raptors potential playoff opponents for optimum usage. Good point. I don't know who else they might be looking at but I bet they are looking.

[Rudy Bargnani]

Interesting stats from Koreen in the athletic today...

since the gasol trade the raps the raps are first in the NBA in 3 point %.......39.6%

they also shot up to 5th in NBA in passes per game.

Interesting stuff. Before the JV fans pick that apart I’m aware JV wasn’t playing for weeks before the trade and basing the measuring stick since the trade date won’t accurately measure JV vs Gasol.

That at all said, it’s good to see the spacing and passing that Gasol brings to the table.

[Beneperez]

Our starting 5 looked really good in the playoffs too. Even with DeRozan's game imploding before us. Just because the coaching staff panicked and went away from it doesn't mean it wasn't working, it means the coaching staff was dumb.

You (partially) nailed my point and I'm going to clarify again what I'm getting at. The starting 5 last year looked great this time of year (like the DeRozan Detroit Dunk game) and I would agree with that also. The point I'm trying to make is that reflecting back, it really didn't mean F all except pleasing hometown fanatics who want to win every game. When the going got tough, players or coaching staff, we couldn't adjust. That isn't me pointing fingers that's just being objective based on the outcome.

^That is what should be noted when we look at the Gasol trade... how is he going to help us when the going gets tough. I personally think he's going to be a real stud based on the way the game will be played. Him and Randolph were destroying guys in every match up they had. Why? Pace of the game. There were some possessions they'd have the ball for 16 seconds and hit buzzer-beating mid rangers. That's a huge reason why I'm very adamant about not judging before the playoffs; we haven't seen this beast in his habitat yet. Factor this in with the element of a decreased work load and there's no reason he shouldn't be successful on this team.

[DanH]

You (partially) nailed my point and I'm going to clarify again what I'm getting at. The starting 5 last year looked great this time of year (like the DeRozan Detroit Dunk game) and I would agree with that also. The point I'm trying to make is that reflecting back, it really didn't mean F all except pleasing hometown fanatics who want to win every game. When the going got tough, players or coaching staff, we couldn't adjust. That isn't me pointing fingers that's just being objective based on the outcome.

^That is what should be noted when we look at the Gasol trade... how is he going to help us when the going gets tough. I personally think he's going to be a real stud based on the way the game will be played. Him and Randolph were destroying guys in every match up they had. Why? Pace of the game. There were some possessions they'd have the ball for 16 seconds and hit buzzer-beating mid rangers. That's a huge reason why I'm very adamant about not judging before the playoffs; we haven't seen this beast in his habitat yet. Factor this in with the element of a decreased work load and there's no reason he shouldn't be successful on this team.

I think you are missing my point. The going never really got tough for the starting unit, it remained our best look and if we'd stuck with it instead of panicking over a bad 5 minute stretch we likely take at least a couple games in that series, and who knows from there?

You say the starting lineup looked great this time of year last year, and that is technically true. But that implies it stopped looking great at some point. That's where it falls apart - it never did. All the looks that were problematic all year (the failed transitional lineups) were the ones that failed in the playoffs, and our coaching staff decided to abandon what worked all year to try more stuff that didn't and that doomed us.

[DanH]

Interesting stats from Koreen in the athletic today...

since the gasol trade the raps the raps are first in the NBA in 3 point %.......39.6%

they also shot up to 5th in NBA in passes per game.

Interesting stuff. Before the JV fans pick that apart I’m aware JV wasn’t playing for weeks before the trade and basing the measuring stick since the trade date won’t accurately measure JV vs Gasol.

That at all said, it’s good to see the spacing and passing that Gasol brings to the table.

It's great in theory to see that. Of course, it's led to the 14th ranked offence in that time frame. Which is very not great to see. They are hitting every long distance shot they take and still putting up a mediocre offence. What happens if they cool off?

Now, ideally they work out their issues on offence while holding onto those improvements in passing/shooting... But that's hardly a given at this point.

[Arsenalist]

It's great in theory to see that. Of course, it's led to the 14th ranked offence in that time frame. Which is very not great to see. They are hitting every long distance shot they take and still putting up a mediocre offence. What happens if they cool off?

Now, ideally they work out their issues on offence while holding onto those improvements in passing/shooting... But that's hardly a given at this point.

Exactly. I have no idea what the point of that article was other than to pick a stat that suits your argument while ignoring others that don't.

We're not doing anything majorly different on offense since the trade other than throwing the ball to Gasol as a token measure. He's a guy that will pay dividends only if he has a synergy with other players, namely Lowry and perhaps Fred. There simply hasn't been enough game time for Fred to create that chemistry and Lowry's load management/injury has also affected us. At this point, we should be humming, not finding our way. I think we'll beat whoever we face in the first round, but Milwaukee is another matter.

[Rudy Bargnani]

Exactly. I have no idea what the point of that article was other than to pick a stat that suits your argument while ignoring others that don't.

We're not doing anything majorly different on offense since the trade other than throwing the ball to Gasol as a token measure. He's a guy that will pay dividends only if he has a synergy with other players, namely Lowry and perhaps Fred. There simply hasn't been enough game time for Fred to create that chemistry and Lowry's load management/injury has also affected us. At this point, we should be humming, not finding our way. I think we'll beat whoever we face in the first round, but Milwaukee is another matter.

I disagree that it's just one stat. From Woz's article yesterday:


"In fact, per a tweet from Sportsnet’s Chris Black, the Raptors have become a different team on offence since acquring Marc Gasol from Memphis.

Toronto’s moved from 15th in assists per game pre-trade to fourth; To sixth in passes from 20th; from 15th to third in potential assists and all the way up to second from 13th in points created from assists. They’re also up to second in secondary assists from eighth."

https://torontosun.com/sports/basket...vel-with-gasol

That...AND top 3 point % since the trade.

Now of course small small size and as Dan notes the 14th ranked offence during that time. This is not to defend Gasol or even the article. The point is hopefully this style of play will translate to playoff success with more ball movement and better spacing leading to improved shooting. I think a lot of the challenges on offence are still rotation related that will sort itself out with a shorter bench in the playoffs. For example Lin and Norm together have really pulled down the offence. Gasol with the starters has a 118 OFFRTG.

Moreover in a playoff match up with Milwaukee I think this style of play should really help. Lots being said about the Bucks having the best D in the league yet giving up the most attempted 3's in the NBA. Having a good shooting team against the bucks is important. They have done a good job taking away the corner 3 and taking away shots at the rim and giving teams open looks at the top of the court. Hence, Ibaka getting so many shots at the top of the key against them this year. I think the Raptors targeted Gasol due to his style of play and how he will pass and shoot from the middle of the court. He could be a really good fit against the bucks.

I agree I'd like the O to be humming a bit more and not just finding our way but I think the results so far are promising and the challenges will be rectified in time and with a shorter bench.

[inthepaint]

I disagree that it's just one stat. From Woz's article yesterday:


"In fact, per a tweet from Sportsnet’s Chris Black, the Raptors have become a different team on offence since acquring Marc Gasol from Memphis.

Toronto’s moved from 15th in assists per game pre-trade to fourth; To sixth in passes from 20th; from 15th to third in potential assists and all the way up to second from 13th in points created from assists. They’re also up to second in secondary assists from eighth."

https://torontosun.com/sports/basket...vel-with-gasol

That...AND top 3 point % since the trade.

Now of course small small size and as Dan notes the 14th ranked offence during that time. This is not to defend Gasol or even the article. The point is hopefully this style of play will translate to playoff success with more ball movement and better spacing leading to improved shooting. I think a lot of the challenges on offence are still rotation related that will sort itself out with a shorter bench in the playoffs. For example Lin and Norm together have really pulled down the offence. Gasol with the starters has a 118 OFFRTG.

Moreover in a playoff match up with Milwaukee I think this style of play should really help. Lots being said about the Bucks having the best D in the league yet giving up the most attempted 3's in the NBA. Having a good shooting team against the bucks is important. They have done a good job taking away the corner 3 and taking away shots at the rim and giving teams open looks at the top of the court. Hence, Ibaka getting so many shots at the top of the key against them this year. I think the Raptors targeted Gasol due to his style of play and how he will pass and shoot from the middle of the court. He could be a really good fit against the bucks.

I agree I'd like the O to be humming a bit more and not just finding our way but I think the results so far are promising and the challenges will be rectified in time and with a shorter bench.

I think the bold is key here vs the Bucks. Their defence is heavily focused in the paint. Most of the good shots against them will come around elbow areas after pickn pops, and 3's. Their D is not the most favourable for Kawhi, but it can concede good looks for players like Ibaka/Lowry/Fred. Gasol can be effective too IF they have him shoot from the high post too instead of just looking for the pass and if he pops to the 3pt line more so then rolling to the rim.

[KeonClark]

I think the bold is key here vs the Bucks. Their defence is heavily focused in the paint. Most of the good shots against them will come around elbow areas after pickn pops, and 3's. Their D is not the most favourable for Kawhi, but it can concede good looks for players like Ibaka/Lowry/Fred. Gasol can be effective too IF they have him shoot from the high post too instead of just looking for the pass and if he pops to the 3pt line more so then rolling to the rim.

Gasol looks to pass before he even gets the ball lol