Raps @ Knicks

[consmap]

One of you needs to start an "Everything DanH" thread.

Is Dan untouchable in the off season?

[JimiCliff]

Well that's not good. We traded a point guard and the two on the team are small and hurt.

Yeah, another reason I didn't like the trade.

[Mitchell Duong]

Nurse said VanVleet is getting healthier, which helped tonight. VanVleet's response: "No, not even close but let’s run with that story. Maybe we speak it into existence"

— Blake Murphy (@BlakeMurphyODC) February 8, 2019

Well that's not good. We traded a point guard and the two on the team are small and hurt.

[JimiCliff]

Nurse said VanVleet is getting healthier, which helped tonight. VanVleet's response: "No, not even close but let’s run with that story. Maybe we speak it into existence"

— Blake Murphy (@BlakeMurphyODC) February 8, 2019

[JimiCliff]

Yup. Moreover I don’t think anyone is making the argument that Serge should start because the starters as a unit are playing so well together. The observation is that Serge has been playing very well as a C especially in comparison to last year and it will be interesting how Nurse manages minutes.

To be clear I think Gasol should start. But people are talking about it because Serge is playing better than last year not because they ran advanced lineup stats on NBA.com

I agree, Gasol should start. But the fit is bad, which is why I don't think it was a good trade.

[Rudy Bargnani]

Yeah but my point is, there's probably nothing to be gained from talking about the effectiveness of 'the starters', and how changing personnel might help them, because the fundamental problem has been injury at the PG spot (regardless of who was playing).
.

Yup. Moreover I don’t think anyone is making the argument that Serge should start because the starters as a unit are playing so well together. The observation is that Serge has been playing very well as a C especially in comparison to last year and it will be interesting how Nurse manages minutes.

To be clear I think Gasol should start. But people are talking about it because Serge is playing better than last year not because they ran advanced lineup stats on NBA.com

[3inthekeon]

One of you needs to start an "Everything DanH" thread.

[GLF]

Yeah. Just because everything he says makes sense, he's correct more than 50% of the time and only makes statements he can back up with actual numbers, you think he's such a big deal.

Good on you.

Lol well it's true. Usually when Dan says something he has numbers that back up his statement and the eye test usually proves it as well. In my humble opinion haha

[Puffer]

...And now here comes the "you're always on Dan H's side. Everything he says you agree with" lmao. That's cool go ahead say it lol

Yeah. Just because everything he says makes sense, he's correct more than 50% of the time and only makes statements he can back up with actual numbers, you think he's such a big deal.

Good on you.

[JimiCliff]

But I think he's talking about when the starters are all healthy and playing. He's not talking about the times when Fred or someone off the bench has to start. He's talking about the lineup of Lowry, Danny, kawhi, Pascal and Serge. That lineup when everyone plays has not been as good as people are making it out to be. But the lineup of Lowry, danny, Kawhi Pascal and JV actually has been great. But I'll let Dan speak for himself

Yeah but my point is, there's probably nothing to be gained from talking about the effectiveness of 'the starters', and how changing personnel might help them, because the fundamental problem has been injury at the PG spot (regardless of who was playing).

Which is why I thought the correct Grizzly to bring in was Conley, not Gasol.

[GLF]

But the most likely reason for that struggle is Lowry being injured and/or mentally checked out, combined with Fred being less than 100% when he starts. This is, IMO, the core issue.

But I think he's talking about when the starters are all healthy and playing. He's not talking about the times when Fred or someone off the bench has to start. He's talking about the lineup of Lowry, Danny, kawhi, Pascal and Serge. That lineup when everyone plays has not been as good as people are making it out to be. But the lineup of Lowry, danny, Kawhi Pascal and JV actually has been great. But I'll let Dan speak for himself

[GLF]

Guys I think Dan H is literally just saying yes Serge INDIVIDUALLY is playing better this season at the C. Great, good for him. BUT the starting lineup AS A WHOLE actually hasn't been great with Serge starting if you look at the stats (even when healthy). The starting lineup with JV (when healthy) has been great AS A WHOLE. So even if Serge has had a better year than JV in your mind the starting lineup as a whole plays better with JV starting over Serge (offensively AND defensively). And this is when healthy and everyone in the starting lineup is playing. Basketball is a team game, I think it's more important that the starters run better as a whole than just focusing on Serge playing well individually.

It the same thing with Kyle almost. Even when Kyle isn't shooting the ball well the offence stills runs DRASTICALLY better when he's on the floor than when he's off of the floor. Sometimes it's not just about how an individual person is playing, it's about the lineup as a whole and how that entire lineup is doing. And I find some of you like to focus on individual players too much.

And the conclusion is: if the starting lineup ran better offensively and defensively when JV was starting over Serge and Marc Gasol is supposed to be a rich man's JV, it should run better with Gasol starting over Serge as well. So we shouldn't even be thinking twice about starting Gasol over Serge no matter how well Serge has played individually. He's also saying this perceived notion that the starters with Serge has been amazing and it shouldn't change is incorrect, check the stats. They've been okay but nothing special, even when healthy. SERGE has been amazing but not the lineup itself. And now here comes the "you're always on Dan H's side. everything he says you agree with" lmao. That's cool go ahead say it lol

[JimiCliff]

It's the American players not wanting to play in Canada is what we have to worry about, not the Europeans.

There's a massive difference between just being ok with playing in Canada, and naming Toronto in a group with the three super heavyweight free-agent cities - New York, LA and Miami - as a place you want to go.

[JimiCliff]

And the only reason I brought up any of it is because there was a point made by Lowe that the Raptors were SO GOOD with Ibaka starting at C that he questions whether they will start Gasol. Which is nuts, because Serge has been fine at C but the starters have not actually been that good as a unit in ages, so we should not hesitate at all to change that up.

But the most likely reason for that struggle is Lowry being injured and/or mentally checked out, combined with Fred being less than 100% when he starts. This is, IMO, the core issue.

[DanH]

Hey man, I don't think we're disagreeing on this one. You start your best players, and if Gasol is one of them, then he'll start at C. No argument there. But let me pose a question just to be sure, since you're alluding to the starters struggles:

Do you believe that the main reason for the starters struggles are injuries? (and all the stuff that's indirectly related to the injuries, like less than ideal chemistry because of guys in-and-out of the lineup, Lowry shot being flat with the bad back etc.)

If your answer is yes, we're in agreement, and I think also in line with what players and coaches think the main challenge has been this year.

If you're answer is no, or something on the lines of "injuries are a part of it, but not the main issue", and the main issue is that Siakam should be coming off the bench, or Ibaka is not a good fit with the starters or OG should start, or some other reason, then we'll have to agree to disagree.

To me the Lowry-Green-Kawhi-Siakam-Ibaka/JV wasn't perfect, but it consisted of our 5 best players, and therefore the right starting lineup (Not that you saying it shouldn't be). They've done well carrying the team to over .710 ball to date, and if they weren't plagued by injuries they would have done even better. I also think they would do even better with an injury-free Marc Gasol as well, I think he'll be really motivated for deep playoff push.

Oh, well two things here. To answer your question, no absolutely the starters regressing is not 100% injuries. There is way more there.

And lumping in JV with the starters is the problem here. He's not here anymore to provide those dominant starter minutes that boosted the other starters. The topic at hand was "Ibaka with the starters has been amazing so how do you justify starting Gasol" - and the answer is that the starters have not been amazing with Ibaka in quite some time, and even when he was (early in the season before all the injuries) the starters were dramatically better with JV. So if Gasol is supposed to be the new upgraded version of JV there is no reason to hesitate pushing Ibaka to the bench or PF to get Gasol into those C minutes with the starters.