Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Bosh Requested a All-Star Wing to Stay

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Brandon wrote: View Post
    It is precisely so. In fact, a team full of good players and scrubs cannot hope to do better than Charlotte did this year. To win in the NBA, you need 3 or 4 stars and the other guys can be one of the roughly 300 scrubs this league has in it now. The trouble with the Raps is, you've got one star, 3 or 4 average players, and a whole bunch of offensive-oriented scrubs. Granted, the club needs more defensive players and long-range shooters. But at least one ball-handling star is a must.
    It used to be that you needed at least one MVP calibre player and, at least, two other All-Stars to win. The 80's Pistons had probably the worst best player on a Championship team, to that point, in Isiah, but he still had 3 All-NBA First team appearances. Then expansion came, and Houston became the first team, that I can think of, that won a Championship with only one All-Star. The '04 Pistons were the first team to win without a legit MVP calibre player. I think the talent level is rising again, though. I think more and more you need more talent. Now, I don't think you can win without an MVP-calibre player, and, at least, a couple of All-Star calibre players.

    Obviously, the more talented your best player is, the less talent you need around him. LeBron can do better with a team of less than, say, Dwight Howard can.
    Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
    Follow me on Twitter.

    Comment


    • #17
      Apollo wrote: View Post
      NBA trends would suggest otherwise. Typically champions have a dominate big man and a dominate guard.
      I don't believe that a wing player is a "big"

      Look if the Raptors dumped Bargnani and replace him with K. Perkins and dumped Calderon and replaced him with CP3 or Rondo then I would agree with what Bosh wants.

      But adding another big time scorer to the current Raptors roster which can't play any defense isn't gong to get the Raptors very far in the playoffs.
      Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

      Memories some so sweet, indeed

      Larger Photo of the avatar



      Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

      Comment


      • #18
        tbihis wrote: View Post
        sorry buddha, but at this day and age, to at least make the playoffs, you need at least 2 all-stars, and to make the finals, you need at least 3 or even 4. Such as the case with the lakers (kobe, pau, artest, odom) orlando (howard, jameer, VC, lewis) cavs (shaq, jamison, williams, LBJ) celtics (KG, pierce, rondo, allen, wallace, finley) suns (hill, nash, amare, richardson) and even the recently eliminated spurs (duncan, jefferson, parker, mcdyess). I actually admire Bosh for asking for an all-star caliber player to play alongside him, it just shows he is at the stage in his career where he is dead serious on winning, unlike 2-3 years ago, he didnt mind much losing, as long as he can put up numbers.

        the sad thing is i dont think Turk, Bosh and Jose play well together, so if Bosh leaves, then we will be able to see what Turk is capable of, but if Bosh stays, then it will probably be the same result as this season coz Turk aint going anywhere with the fat contract.
        I don't disagree with that but adding another big time scorer is not going to solve the Raptors problems on defense which are astronomical.

        You don't win in the NBA without defense, straight up.

        Fix the problems on defense first and then see what you got before adding another scorer who probably won't be able to stop his opponent from scoring given the Raptors penchant for having scorers who can't defend.
        Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

        Memories some so sweet, indeed

        Larger Photo of the avatar



        Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

        Comment


        • #19
          Tim W. wrote: View Post
          It used to be that you needed at least one MVP calibre player and, at least, two other All-Stars to win. The 80's Pistons had probably the worst best player on a Championship team, to that point, in Isiah, but he still had 3 All-NBA First team appearances. Then expansion came, and Houston became the first team, that I can think of, that won a Championship with only one All-Star. The '04 Pistons were the first team to win without a legit MVP calibre player. I think the talent level is rising again, though. I think more and more you need more talent. Now, I don't think you can win without an MVP-calibre player, and, at least, a couple of All-Star calibre players.

          Obviously, the more talented your best player is, the less talent you need around him. LeBron can do better with a team of less than, say, Dwight Howard can.
          I will debate you about what you said about the two Pistons teams that won titles but not on the forum only if you send me a private email and then we can have at it gladly
          Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

          Memories some so sweet, indeed

          Larger Photo of the avatar



          Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

          Comment


          • #20
            I heard bosh say something like that at the press conference
            http://websitedweeb.userboard.net-Introduce your website. No signup required!

            Comment


            • #21
              And while he offered no certainties on Thursday, Bosh did lay out some general parameters.

              Would he have to be a No. 1 option? Not necessarily. To re-sign here, would there need to be roster changes? “I think there has to be changes,” he said, “only because we didn’t make the playoffs. It’s not like we’re building off success.”

              How about an all-star-calibre perimeter player who can create, unlike the mediocre parade of Mike James, Morris Peterson, Jalen Rose, T.J. Ford, Jose Calderon, Anthony Parker, Jarrett Jack and DeMar DeRozan that has rolled through here over the past five years?

              “You’re going to have to have someone who can really create their own,” Bosh said. “Like you said, be an all-star. When you look at every good team, that’s what they have.”

              Well, what about an organization willing to spend into the NBA’s punitive luxury tax, where every dollar spent costs you three?

              “You have to,” said Bosh. “That’s something that I only really started thinking about this year. As I’ve gotten older, I’ve looked at other teams and their success and how they do their business. And you have to.”

              BRUCE ARTHUR, NATIONAL POST APRIL 15, 2010
              http://www.nationalpost.com/story.html?id=2915583
              Last edited by Apollo; Tue May 11, 2010, 07:35 PM. Reason: Added quote box around quoted material

              Comment


              • #22
                Buddahfan wrote: View Post
                I don't believe that a wing player is a "big"

                Look if the Raptors dumped Bargnani and replace him with K. Perkins and dumped Calderon and replaced him with CP3 or Rondo then I would agree with what Bosh wants.

                But adding another big time scorer to the current Raptors roster which can't play any defense isn't gong to get the Raptors very far in the playoffs.
                By saying "all-star caliber player" youre essentially referring to a big-time scorer at least 90% of the time. Being an all star goes hand in hand with being a scorer, even Dwight Howard who is the league's top defensive player, averages at least 20pts a game. It is true that defense wins championships, but the bottomline is, if you cant score, you cant win games. I think what Bosh means is get an all-star caliber player (one who can create offense for the team) and then surround us with guys who can play defense, or at least address the defensive and rebounding issues that we've been having.

                K. Perk, Rondo, CP3 would be good additions to this team, but if somebody at Bosh's level is already looking to leave a team like the Raptors, im not really sure if the likes of a Paul or a Rondo would be interested in playing here, unless you both pay them max salaries. Bosh is only talking about all-stars, not elite players. A Monta Ellis, Devin Harris type player would probably do. Now im not saying get these players specifically, what i mean is the same level as these players would probably satisfy Bosh's request.

                Comment


                • #23
                  If true, I think the priorities are wrong (not that getting a v. good wing would be nice...and I am going to assume he meant a scoring wing). What would be more beneficial to team as currently constructed is not more offense but a point guard that breaks opponents down on offense and a solid defender on the opposing point g. And then take it from there in terms of further changes....which imo would be a centre with defensive presence and then improvement on the wing hoping that DD improves & Hedo shapes up with Weems holding the fort.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Buddahfan wrote: View Post
                    I don't believe that a wing player is a "big"
                    Bosh is a big man, prove that statement wrong.

                    Just some thoughts...
                    2009: Bryant and Gasol
                    2008: Garnett and Peirce w/Allen and Rondo
                    2007: Duncan and Parker and/or Manu
                    2006: Shaq and Wade
                    2005: Duncan and Parker and/or Manu
                    2004: The exception.
                    2003: Duncan and Parker and/or Manu
                    2002: Shaq and Bryant
                    2001: Shaq and Bryant
                    2000: Shaq and Bryant

                    Buddahfan wrote: View Post
                    Look if the Raptors dumped Bargnani and replace him with K. Perkins and dumped Calderon and replaced him with CP3 or Rondo then I would agree with what Bosh wants.

                    But adding another big time scorer to the current Raptors roster which can't play any defense isn't gong to get the Raptors very far in the playoffs.
                    Bosh asked for a star wing. I don't recall him asking for a star scorer. Why do you assume he's talking about solely scoring and not defense? There are a bunch of star wings who are great defenders.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Apollo wrote: View Post
                      Bosh is a big man, prove that statement wrong.

                      Just some thoughts...
                      2009: Bryant and Gasol
                      2008: Garnett and Peirce w/Allen and Rondo
                      2007: Duncan and Parker and/or Manu
                      2006: Shaq and Wade
                      2005: Duncan and Parker and/or Manu
                      2004: The exception.
                      2003: Duncan and Parker and/or Manu
                      2002: Shaq and Bryant
                      2001: Shaq and Bryant
                      2000: Shaq and Bryant


                      Bosh asked for a star wing. I don't recall him asking for a star scorer. Why do you assume he's talking about solely scoring and not defense? There are a bunch of star wings who are great defenders and I don't even have to mention KG or Mr. Fundamental who could also defend.
                      All of those teams that you mention were at least very good defensive teams. Shaq in his prime was one heck of a defender. KG and Mr. Fundamental were also very good defenders especially KG.

                      Okay I will bite. I am using the term as played in all-star games or made the 1st, 2nd or 3rd team NBA. It seems reasonable that Bosh was also talking about that.

                      If he meant someone like Battier in his prime Bosh would of or at least should have said great defender.

                      So please name me one all-star wing man from the criteria listed above that the Raptors could reasonably expect to add that can play above average defense.

                      The closest I can think is Joe Johnson who can still defend pretty good.

                      Even though I think that Joe Johnson's best years are behind him especially on defense swapping Bargnani for him on a S&T and starting Big Dawg along with CB4 would work for me. Would the Hawks do a sign and trade of J. Johnson for Bargnani? It would make them younger and allow Horford to move to his natural position of PF.

                      What other all-star wing men can you think of that the Raptors get via trade based upon what they would have to offer other than Bosh which of course doesn't work in this scenario
                      Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

                      Memories some so sweet, indeed

                      Larger Photo of the avatar



                      Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Why is this such a big deal? Bosh clearly has no idea what he's talking about.

                        His main focus is scoring the ball so naturally he wants another player who can do that. If he cared about playing defense i'm sure he would want a similar player. If he cared about winning, he would want winners.

                        Kobe pulled the same stunt when he criticized the Bynum pick and LA management. The Lakers were the best team in the league even before the Gasol trade. Players who are still playing aren't good gm's, either because its a conflict of interest or because ego trumps rationality.

                        LA picked Artest over Ariza which didn't look good in year 1, how bout year 4. The Celtics big three wanted Sheed who didn't look good on day 1. Baron wanted Brand to stay in LA and now they both stink.

                        Every player in the league thinks he should be an all star and the all stars all think they should be MVP.

                        Teams get in trouble when they start listening to thier star player's roster demands. Raps did the same thing when the over-extended AD, JYD and Alvin to appease Wince.

                        If Bosh wants to stay here next year fine, but not if he's calling the shots or holding BC hostage. The guy shows up courtside to a Laker game looking like he just got off the Predator vs Avatar set and manages to alienate an entire fanbase 140 characters at a time. Leave the personnel decisions to the well tailored professionals and the cyberspace know-it-alls.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Buddahfan wrote: View Post
                          All of those teams that you mention were at least very good defensive teams. Shaq in his prime was one heck of a defender. KG and Mr. Fundamental were also very good defenders especially KG.

                          Okay I will bite. I am using the term as played in all-star games or made the 1st, 2nd or 3rd team NBA. It seems reasonable that Bosh was also talking about that.

                          If he meant someone like Battier in his prime Bosh would of or at least should have said great defender.

                          So please name me one all-star wing man from the criteria listed above that the Raptors could reasonably expect to add that can play above average defense.

                          The closest I can think is Joe Johnson who can still defend pretty good.

                          Even though I think that Joe Johnson's best years are behind him especially on defense swapping Bargnani for him on a S&T and starting Big Dawg along with CB4 would work for me. Would the Hawks do a sign and trade of J. Johnson for Bargnani? It would make them younger and allow Horford to move to his natural position of PF.

                          What other all-star wing men can you think of that the Raptors get via trade based upon what they would have to offer other than Bosh which of course doesn't work in this scenario
                          I consider a star, a star. Tayshawn Prince is a star. Who cares if he got the nod or not. He's good enough to be there. That's one example. I'm not sure why the Raptors would only target star wings who don't play defense...

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Apollo wrote: View Post
                            I consider a star, a star. Tayshawn Prince is a star. Who cares if he got the nod or not. He's good enough to be there. That's one example. I'm not sure why the Raptors would only target star wings who don't play defense...
                            Now that I have calmed down let me just say this.

                            What I can tell you is that there were two main guys who screwed Johnson in 2008-09.

                            1. One was Curry who lied to him and messed with his head something fierce

                            2. The other was the above mentioned Prince. I don't know the reasons but I can tell you this. The other major reason that Johnson had such a bad year in Detroit in 2008-09 after having a very good year the year before when he and Stuckey led the Pistons "Zoo Crew" in their becoming the #1 rated bench unit in the NBA that season, was because of Prince.

                            When Johnson was inserted into the starting lineup for the first time in 2008-09 and any time he was on the court with Prince, Prince absolutely refused and I absolutely refused to pass him the ball even when Johnson was wide open five feet or less from the basket.

                            I don't know why and I don't care if I ever find out. All I know is as a result of Prince's refusing to pass Johnson the ball Johnson most of the time never touched the ball on offense except when he got and offensive rebound.

                            All of this began after the 2nd game of the season after Dumars traded Billups for Iverson and made Prince the Point Forward. Ai for the most part also refused to pass the ball to Johnson but at least he would pass it too him when Johnson was open if AI was taking a shot, which wasn't very often to say the least.

                            Needless to say as a result of the freeze-out by Prince, Johnson's psyche and game were negatively affected significantly. If Johnson was getting passed to only a few times in ten court minutes it may not have been so bad but Prince and AI who did almost all of the ball handling when they were on the court refused to pass him the ball.

                            However, when McDyess came in or Maxiell came in they passed both of them the ball with regularity.

                            As a result of this I have nothing good to say about Prince.
                            Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

                            Memories some so sweet, indeed

                            Larger Photo of the avatar



                            Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Buddahfan wrote: View Post
                              When Johnson was inserted into the starting lineup for the first time in 2008-09 and any time he was on the court with Prince, Prince absolutely refused and I absolutely refused to pass him the ball even when Johnson was wide open five feet or less from the basket.

                              I don't know why and I don't care if I ever find out. All I know is as a result of Prince's refusing to pass Johnson the ball Johnson most of the time never touched the ball on offense except when he got and offensive rebound.

                              All of this began after the 2nd game of the season after Dumars traded Billups for Iverson and made Prince the Point Forward. Ai for the most part also refused to pass the ball to Johnson but at least he would pass it too him when Johnson was open if AI was taking a shot, which wasn't very often to say the least.

                              Needless to say as a result of the freeze-out by Prince, Johnson's psyche and game were negatively affected significantly. If Johnson was getting passed to only a few times in ten court minutes it may not have been so bad but Prince and AI who did almost all of the ball handling when they were on the court refused to pass him the ball.

                              However, when McDyess came in or Maxiell came in they passed both of them the ball with regularity.

                              As a result of this I have nothing good to say about Prince.
                              Sorry man but if a reasonable trade for Prince could be had and it came down to Prince not coming here or Johnson's feelings being hurt I'm saying "here's a box of tissues Amir, get over it. Learn to work together." If it was as bad as you say that year, don't know didn't see many Pistons games that season, you're still not getting the background story. Prince has no history of being a bad teammate. He's known as being a very good teammate who works hard and blends into a team. He was very selfless for years, sacrificing numbers for the greater good of the Pistons. Prince is exactly the kind of player the Raptors could use in its quest for a championship. He's been there, he's performed at a high level on both ends for years and he's been shown to complement greater talents very well.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Apollo wrote: View Post
                                Sorry man but if a reasonable trade for Prince could be had and it came down to Prince not coming here or Johnson's feelings being hurt I'm saying "here's a box of tissues Amir, get over it. Learn to work together." If it was as bad as you say that year, don't know didn't see many Pistons games that season, you're still not getting the background story. Prince has no history of being a bad teammate. He's known as being a very good teammate who works hard and blends into a team. He was very selfless for years, sacrificing numbers for the greater good of the Pistons. Prince is exactly the kind of player the Raptors could use in its quest for a championship. He's been there, he's performed at a high level on both ends for years and he's been shown to complement greater talents very well.
                                When the Pistons were winning the last few years you should have read some of the Pistons forums and their comments about Prince especially when he totally disappeared in the playoffs both on offense and defense way he played against a SF that was any good at all.

                                The guy has career averages of 12.5 ppg and less than 5 rpg. His defense against guys like Pierce and Lebron has been non-existent for years In fact he can's stop anyone anymore that weighs over 230 lbs

                                The best that could be said of him was that for years he was never hurt and he fit in with 4 all-star starters. He himself was never an all-star.

                                He did make team U.S.A. but he was the last guy on the bench and when he played he wasn't very effective.

                                Is he better than Hedo? I would say that Hedo is a better on court teammate but Prince and Hedo have similar games in terms of on court results at this point in their careers. I know that that is hard to believe seeing the way that Hedo played this season, but lets see what happens in 2010-11
                                Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

                                Memories some so sweet, indeed

                                Larger Photo of the avatar



                                Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X