Rumour: Hedo To Be Dealt on Draft Day?

[Vellassco]

2006-2007 the Magic finished with the same record as the Raptors did this season yet Hedo's DWS was three times as high in 06-07 than 09-10.

If you look at how to calculate DWS , you will see that its also proportional with teams defensive ratings. 06-07 season Magic finished at 6th place at Defensive Rating with (104.1) while 09-10 season Raptors at bottom of the league with (113.2).

There are also lots of other variables for DWS: team defensive possessions, league points per possession, league points per game, team pace, league pace... etc. on that particular years. You cant fix those variables and degrade player defense into one value esp comparing them year to year and team to team.

As opposed to your move i can ask you how you describe his Career High Defensive Rating (113) under Raptors uniform (This was 105 at 06-07 season if you care). At leas this one (estimation of points allowed per 100 possession) has only one variable.

Look Apollo, Stats are fun to play. There will be no winner at the end of this debate. Just like Math; Someone can prove you 2+2=5 with playing numbers.

Believe what you want believe , so do i.

[insight_tor]

I really hope Hedo will be gone soon, I can stand to see his mug on the Raptors squad. He may be a skilled bball player but he has a bad attitude/character and a lazy ass! Move the party boy as far as possible from Toronto ... eventually back to Turkey!

[Apollo]

Win Shares directly proportional to team wins. They are hardly used in players individual performances.

2006-2007 the Magic finished with the same record as the Raptors did this season yet Hedo's DWS was three times as high in 06-07 than 09-10.

Generally, Its really hard to calculate defensive individual performances from stats due to defense is more about team work. Just watch again his last games. He elevated his effort level at end of the season for sure.

If you look across the league at the top defensive players, the defensive stats have been a good gauge of their on court defensive worth. You can try to discredit it but we have a large group of people saying Hedo sucks on defense and stats are backing it up. That's not case closed on the debate but the case of Hedo's bad defense is much stronger than your case.

[Nick]

Case Closed.

[Vellassco]

Come now guys, let's not take off the gloves here. I believe this Hedo debate can be won without needing to reduce this to name calling... Why not focus on Hedo's lack of effort on defense, the fact that his rate of fouls increased this season, his defensive win share went from 4.4 the year prior to 0.8 and his defensive rating was 113, that's 8 points above his career average?

Data Source: Basketball Reference

Win Shares directly proportional to team wins. They are hardly used in players individual performances. You are comparing Magic and Raptors while you are trying to emphasize Hedo's defensive performance. Generally, Its really hard to calculate defensive individual performances from stats due to defense is more about team work. Just watch again his last games. He elevated his effort level at end of the season for sure.

[Vellassco]

This is from a year ago. Anything from this year, or are you just speculating?

My grammar is terrible , as long as i remember your question was "Do you have anything to back up YOUR opinion that Turkoglu is not a bad defender? " and i guess its simple present tense. So my quote was exactly an answer to your question. On the other hand, i took your request as an order and tried to find a reliable source which you cant speculate anymore (which i doubt. I bet you will take another step to verify how invincible person you are.)

What about this?

On the defensive end, he’s been fine. He hasn’t really been a positive or a negative, if that makes sense. We definitely have defensive problems as a team.

from Keith Boyarsky and Alex Rucker.

Link

who are they? Reliable?

Dont know. Ask your Management. Those are Raptors' stat guys.

[Hotshot]

Hedo has proven to act like a baby all season long as well as the offseason and instead of going the man route he decided to take the wince route, so screw hedo the pizza eating baby.

[Nick]

Yah I really shouldn't have resorted to name calling, pretty immature. Besides were all on the same team here, so i'll just stick to tasteful debating.

Vellassco, that was very insightful and something I think all Raps fans should read. Its too bad it didn't work out with Hedo, because I love the guy. Its all good though, I'm excited to see see a different brand of Raps bball next year, and seeing what transpires over the summer.

[Vellassco]

Any one noticed? How was Celtic players effort during the regular season and how was at the playoffs? They were nearly loosing their 4th place to Bucks with their fluctuating efforts. They lost the ring for just 4 points, rite?.

[Vellassco]

Welcome to Hedo's Horror Movie, Nick.

In case of your post posses too many negatives about Turkoglu, you would not take that much reaction. Only one positive sentence towards him in this post is enough for taking attention of honey bees of this jungle. There is no any tolerance for him for sure. Its understandable in some ways. It was a terrible season from many aspects and Frustration over Raptors fan base is not coming from just previous year. It looks like a blow out year after many disappointment years. Yes, Hedo has taken bigger part from this jerks. May be a bit much from what he realy deserves. Whenever he tries to defend him self (just one case during regular season) or some one try to back him up, ppls call them "excuses". Some ppl went out of mind and accused him from variety ways (i.e: Apollos last post... accountability, honor, integrity, to be lier, bitching.. etc, in just one post). May be you will like to know, Apollo : At the beginning of famous sport tv show which Hedo requested his trade, his first words (in untranslated part) were about his own mistakes. He criticized himself from many ways. He accused himself for venting out to the media for his dis-comfortability of new role (as a veteran professional player he shouldn't have done this yes but you should also give him some credit, He came here from previous year Finals, and he was the big part of it, may be he expected a bigger role in here and it was understandable from my pov.) and he was sorry for his "Ball" comment too. He also accepted he tried to play his best but it was not enough. He said he could perform better no matter what situation he had faced. He repeated twice that he came to Toronto TO PLAY, not for laying down his contract. It just didn't worked (Chemistry issues ). Briefly, accountability was there, just like he did in post season media interview in Toronto. Yes may be Effort was not there all the time which i give credit to Apollos view ( biggest and rational blame towards hedo was his Effort in all games. But this situation was there in past at Orlando too. SVG was the difference. His love and hate relation with Hedo took them to the Finals.). His trade request has nothing to do with the City of Toronto. He said its a great city to live and ppls were so kind to him. He was just sad about Management and how they took the Night Club incidence. If your boss loose his credibility in your mind, you probably hesitate to work under him for next 4 years. Instead of live with my doubts in my mind, i also leaves there and prove myself in another company if its really necessary.

Nick, You will understand Its too tire-full to defend yourself against Hedo biases and you will stop soon. I really appreciated for your fearless effort in this thread. It was so nice to read into your posts.

Btw: I hope your sources are telling the truths and rumors comes true. I love Utahs' offensive and defensive sets as a basketball fan. Sounds great.

[Apollo]

Come now guys, let's not take off the gloves here. I believe this Hedo debate can be won without needing to reduce this to name calling... Why not focus on Hedo's lack of effort on defense, the fact that his rate of fouls increased this season, his defensive win share went from 4.4 the year prior to 0.8 and his defensive rating was 113, that's 8 points above his career average?

Data Source: Basketball Reference

[Tim W.]

If your so smart then you would of realized that I was using the Simon Birch reference in correlation with our banter; as in everything you say goes completely over my head.. I'm sure your great at talking with little people, isn't that what carnies do?

You keep misusing the word `your'. It should be `you're'.

[Nick]

The character of Simon Birch actually had a normal intellect, but had stunted growth. Simon Birch would have understood what I was saying.

If your so smart then you would of realized that I was using the Simon Birch reference in correlation with our banter; as in everything you say goes completely over my head.. I'm sure your great at talking with little people, isn't that what carnies do?

[Tim W.]

Ok... Can you break it down in retard terms for me and my papa? What is the point your trying to make? To me (Simon Birch) you are just jabbering trying to sound smart.

The character of Simon Birch actually had a normal intellect, but had stunted growth. Simon Birch would have understood what I was saying.

[Nick]

Sorry that insulted your son Nick. I apologize. And numbers don't tell the whole story. You have to watch. Basketball talk is all speculating and anyone that doesn't think so is deluding themselves.



That says more about you than me.

Ok... Can you break it down in retard terms for me and my papa? What is the point your trying to make? To me (Simon Birch) you are just jabbering trying to sound smart.