Monta Ellis Needed in Toronto

[Dave]

Monta Ellis would be a very nice scoring point guard alongside Hedo Turkoglu.

Otherwise, I have no interest in him. Turkoglu has to be here and the offense has to be turned over to Hedo like the Magic did with Hedo + Nelson.

[Tim W.]

because he is quick, can create his own shot, get's lots of steals, can put up points. he scored like 40 points and fouled out(which is considered a bad game?)

Yes he's quick and can create his own shots. Unfortunately he takes A LOT of them and doesn't score very efficiently. Give anyone 22 shots a game (more than any other player in the league) and he's going to score.

As for steals, that means nothing other than he gambles a lot. Micheal Williams nearly lead the league in steals one year and he was a truly awful defender. Steals are great, as long as when you don't get them your man doesn't have an advantage, and that's usually the case with Ellis.

[Nick]

[QUOTE=yertu damkule;21928]

so, not being a 'terrible' defender = being a good one?

for the record, i don't think turk is terrible, i just don't think he gives a shit. he was motivated in the playoffs with orlando, and we all saw what he CAN do if he wants. he just didn't want to last year, and nothing he's done/said this offseason would suggest that will change as long as he's with the raps.

Agreed

[yertu damkule]

[QUOTE=Nick;21902]

never heard ellis associated with 'good D.'

Ya well according to Rap fans Turk is a terrible defender too, but for some reason he was Orlando's lock down guard in their 08/09 run.

so, not being a 'terrible' defender = being a good one?

for the record, i don't think turk is terrible, i just don't think he gives a shit. he was motivated in the playoffs with orlando, and we all saw what he CAN do if he wants. he just didn't want to last year, and nothing he's done/said this offseason would suggest that will change as long as he's with the raps.

[yertu damkule]

The sixth pick is very very good in this draft and you don't really hit the part of the draft where everyone is about the same till the 8th pick. To me it goes
Wall
Turner
Johnson
Favours
Cousins
Monroe
Aminu
The rest
Some sites have Cousins there, Aminu will almost certainly be there and with all this talk about the Nets messing up Minni's draft for them, we could even have one of the top four guys drop to six. I would be very happy trading Jack pretty much anyone on the roster other than DeRozen and maybe Bargs for Monta and the 6th.

i'll give you wall & turner as 'sure-things.' cousins has - arguably - the most talent of anyone in draft, and could be a perennial 20/10 guy...but his head might not be screwed on right, and could flame out in spectular fashion. i'm leery of johnson's upside...he'll be a solid pro, a regular rotation guy, but i don't see all-star. favors could have the best career out of all of 'em. monroe seems like a good candidate for a bust, though he has the skills...just doesn't seem to have the fire. aminu - i really don't know what to make of him, i saw too many games over the last couple seasons where he just sort of drifted. i don't recall him ever 'taking over.' he put up excellent stats, but i'm not sure how well he'll translate to the pros.

i still see it as a 4-man draft, and after that, it gets a little crap-shooty. and then just crap.

[Nick]

because he is quick, can create his own shot, get's lots of steals, can put up points. he scored like 40 points and fouled out(which is considered a bad game?)

He's unreal!

[LBF]

I don't understand people's love of Ellis. He's an undersized shooting guard that shoots an enormous amount but doesn't score very efficiently and doesn't play much defense. And he plays in a system that makes him look better than he is, his teams don't win and he's vastly overpaid.

Of course I'd love to get Golden State's pick, but having to take Ellis, no matter who the Raptors gave up, makes me think twice.

because he is quick, can create his own shot, get's lots of steals, can put up points. he scored like 40 points and fouled out(which is considered a bad game?)

[Nick]

[QUOTE=yertu damkule;21851]never heard ellis associated with 'good D.'

Ya well according to Rap fans Turk is a terrible defender too, but for some reason he was Orlando's lock down guard in their 08/09 run.

[hateslosing]

The sixth pick is very very good in this draft and you don't really hit the part of the draft where everyone is about the same till the 8th pick. To me it goes
Wall
Turner
Johnson
Favours
Cousins
Monroe
Aminu
The rest
Some sites have Cousins there, Aminu will almost certainly be there and with all this talk about the Nets messing up Minni's draft for them, we could even have one of the top four guys drop to six. I would be very happy trading Jack pretty much anyone on the roster other than DeRozen and maybe Bargs for Monta and the 6th.

[yertu damkule]

Ellis is sick man. His character is a little questionable after that moped incident, but on the court he can fill it up. He does play in an offense that's statistically uplifting. However ellis is an absolute burner. He's one of the fastest guards in the L who without a doubt can guard pretty much guard anybody, and on the contrary beat them off the dribble. I know this isn't apparent as he played on G-State; a team who are allot like the Raptors in that both teams have players who can play D, but are victims of terrible team defensive schemes/integrity. He is exactly what the raps could use.

never heard ellis associated with 'good D.'

i doubt GState would be interested in turk, or taking on any salary, for that matter, that doesn't involve expiring contracts (perhaps evans &/or banks, along with a cheap young guy like weems???).

i can see why they'd be interested in moving down in the draft, having the 6th pick in a 4-man draft kinda sucks, it's really no better than having the 10th or 15th picks, since the quality of guy you're getting at 6 likely isn't much different than a guy that will be available late in the lottery. of course, it would be typically raptor-esque to finally move up in a draft to a spot that will be devoid of impact players. who they gonna take with the 6th that will be *better* than what's available at 13? IMO, if you're not able to move into the top-4, you're better off moving down into the 20's.

[Nick]

I don't understand people's love of Ellis. He's an undersized shooting guard that shoots an enormous amount but doesn't score very efficiently and doesn't play much defense. And he plays in a system that makes him look better than he is, his teams don't win and he's vastly overpaid.

Of course I'd love to get Golden State's pick, but having to take Ellis, no matter who the Raptors gave up, makes me think twice.

Ellis is sick man. His character is a little questionable after that moped incident, but on the court he can fill it up. He does play in an offense that's statistically uplifting. However ellis is an absolute burner. He's one of the fastest guards in the L who without a doubt can guard pretty much guard anybody, and on the contrary beat them off the dribble. I know this isn't apparent as he played on G-State; a team who are allot like the Raptors in that both teams have players who can play D, but are victims of terrible team defensive schemes/integrity. He is exactly what the raps could use.

[Tim W.]

Totally agree with you on this Tim. Ellis is essentially a younger Ben Gordon.

Ugh! Of course, I'd have no problem with either player if he made half his present salary and agreed to come off the bench.

[mo-sales]

For those who haven't heard, GS apparently turned down Mayo and Thabeet for Ellis. Mayo is better than anyone the raps have and Thabeet is either an epic bust in one of the deepest drafts ever or in need of a couple more D league reps to learn how to play basketball. To think that raps have any pieces that could interest GS in anything other than a dump is foolhardy.

I think Ellis is awesome. Are his stats possibly inflated yes, does his game benefit the system yes, do his team perennially suck yes, but that doesn't change the fact that the guy has crazy game and has never really had a chance to prove his worth in the playoffs.

[Mess]

It seems like everyone has a source these days.

[TheGloveinRapsUniform]

I don't understand people's love of Ellis. He's an undersized shooting guard that shoots an enormous amount but doesn't score very efficiently and doesn't play much defense. And he plays in a system that makes him look better than he is, his teams don't win and he's vastly overpaid.

Of course I'd love to get Golden State's pick, but having to take Ellis, no matter who the Raptors gave up, makes me think twice.

Totally agree with you on this Tim. Ellis is essentially a younger Ben Gordon.