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Tanking vs. Rebuilding

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  • Tanking vs. Rebuilding

    Tanking: Intentionally losing in order to get good draft picks.

    Rebuilding: Adding young players in order to create a good team for the future. Winning and losing are irrelevant until the new core is developed.

    I've been noticing that a lot of people are getting these two things confused so I thought I'd post this in case people were wondering. I am pro rebuild and anti-tank.
    "Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

    -Churchill

  • #2
    No tanking please, it would be like cheating. Raptors should be rebuilding as tanking is too risky from more reasons:
    1. Even if you have the worst record, you may not end up with the first pick.
    2. If you get a top pick, you may not have the best player available (i.e. Darko Milici)
    3. The bad reputation of supporting losing culture.
    4. Raptors may lose their best asset: their fans!

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    • #3
      Something is missing in this thread. Colangelo sounds as though he's not doing either of these scenarios right now. I mean look at how he's using the MLE.

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      • #4
        Third Choice:

        Retooling: When you're on the last year of your contract and by all rights should be rebuilding but instead choose to sign over the hill useless free agents and trade your youth in order to be a mediocre, lucky to be in the first round of the playoffs, pretty frigging bad excuse for a team.

        Sorry I missed that one Apollo

        Edit: Keiza is not a retooling piece as Marz pointed out below.
        Last edited by hateslosing; Fri Jul 9, 2010, 01:05 PM.
        "Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

        -Churchill

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        • #5
          Apollo wrote: View Post
          Something is missing in this thread. Colangelo sounds as though he's not doing either of these scenarios right now. I mean look at how he's using the MLE.
          Kleiza isn't "Adding young players in order to create a good team for the future"? He's young, and he's well polished. I don't like the signing either but it's definitely a step in the rebuilding process while remaining competitive. Colangelo doesn't tank. We have tonnes of youth on the roster and only 2 "old" veterans in Hedo and Jose. I see no reason to think we're not rebuilding.

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          • #6
            isn't Jose 27 or 28?

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            • #7
              @#$! tanking. Fight! I'm with Colangelo on this one.

              If the Milwaukee Bucks can do it, so should the Raptors. Demote Triano. Put in a real coach like Scott Skiles or somethin', and play your ass off with what you've got. Give the reigns to PJ Carlisimo. There are so many poorly run teams out there, the Raptors should put in a much more experienced coach a la Larry Brown to develop this young squad and make them compete. We're wasting valuable time with Triano right now.
              "Never compromise. Not even in the face of Armageddon."
              ~Rorschach

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              • #8
                Rap Challenger, so you'd rather get blasted as an 8 seed on a regular basis than suck it up and build a team that can do some damage? why? where's the "fight" in that?

                To the rest, so far Colangelo seems to be rebuilding. Unless he signs someone like Hedo - an older, possbily not very good, expensive free agent, that seems to be what he's doing. He can call it whatever the hell he wants. If Kleiza's deal sticks, he won't have the MLE and so won't have $ to throw around. So we may be rebuilding while trying to convince the corporate box holders and idiots in the lower bowl with their blackberries that it's still a competitive team next year. If that's so, good.

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                • #9
                  insight_tor wrote: View Post
                  No tanking please, it would be like cheating. Raptors should be rebuilding as tanking is too risky from more reasons:
                  1. Even if you have the worst record, you may not end up with the first pick.
                  2. If you get a top pick, you may not have the best player available (i.e. Darko Milici)
                  3. The bad reputation of supporting losing culture.
                  4. Raptors may lose their best asset: their fans!
                  5. TO may loose the franchise in worst case.

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                  • #10
                    The last team that blatantly tanked was Miami.... go figure.

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                    • #11
                      Ill say im rebuild
                      but im not really anti-tanking
                      I just feel that if we have a young team the losses will come

                      But i will say that i hope that we do get a good draft pick this year

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                      • #12
                        rebuilding

                        Rebuilding!
                        If you take away Turkoglu and Jose, the Raptors are a very young team;

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                        • #13
                          Sam wrote: View Post
                          Rap Challenger, so you'd rather get blasted as an 8 seed on a regular basis than suck it up and build a team that can do some damage? why? where's the "fight" in that?

                          To the rest, so far Colangelo seems to be rebuilding. Unless he signs someone like Hedo - an older, possbily not very good, expensive free agent, that seems to be what he's doing. He can call it whatever the hell he wants. If Kleiza's deal sticks, he won't have the MLE and so won't have $ to throw around. So we may be rebuilding while trying to convince the corporate box holders and idiots in the lower bowl with their blackberries that it's still a competitive team next year. If that's so, good.
                          The other option is trying to build a team through the draft and, personally, I think that's playing with fire. Milwaukee is no-mans land but they're looking more and more attractive to free agents because they're outplaying other teams and are considered a legitimate, competitive team. Let's face it, to most US players in the league, Toronto is fast becoming the "other Minnesota" - especially with its soft, euro-mix roster. If we "tank" for 3-5 years, we risk developing a reputation of being a minor league market; the NBADL team; Canada's Clippers.

                          Ask Timberwolves, Clippers and 76ers fans how they feel about tanking. And IMO, the Raps will fall harder and faster with the "tank" strategy.
                          Last edited by Rap Challenger; Fri Jul 9, 2010, 03:05 PM.
                          "Never compromise. Not even in the face of Armageddon."
                          ~Rorschach

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                          • #14
                            Lets get one thing straight, No team will loose intentionally in NBA But when you trade away your best players for Draft Pick and expiring contracts, then you will automatically loose.

                            Look at Toronto right now, BC can stay with current team, let the young players develop while trying to acquire more picks by moving some of his movable players like Jack.

                            Or he can sign average players to long contract and keep this team mediocre fighting for play off spot and ... keeping some dumb asses happy.

                            Right now, it seems like BC is going with the 2nd choice. You can not rebuild like that when you offer long contracts to unproven players and over pay them. You can not rebuild by getting late first round picks and ...


                            We need to start over like Washington is doing or OKC did after Ray Allen or Wolfs are finally doing after Garnett. However, BC is NOT the right guy for this job and his recent moves prove that.

                            So we can not talk about a real rebuild till this guy is in charge. Fire him and Raptor will be in the right path.

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                            • #15
                              benitonicoya wrote: View Post
                              Rebuilding!
                              If you take away Turkoglu and Jose, the Raptors are a very young team;
                              Well, it is not as simple. When your GM over pays, you can not simply trade those players and it becomes a difficult task. Add to that List, Amir's contract as well in a year and some might even argue AB. Our GM is blocking our way to a real rebuild by giving these ridiculous contracts that no one in NBA wants

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