Shouldn't We HOPE For A Bad Year?

[vinnie_paz]

@ Lark Benson

I apologize if I missed it but re: your position of solely/mostly relying on the draft and hence doing the tank....what's the backup plan for when your star player gets up and leaves the first opportunity he gets ...sometimes because he has arranged to play with his buds at another location.

umm he actually didnt leave the first oppurtunity he got... he just like bosh n wade signed a 3 year extension in 2007...
no rookie comes into the league and gets a 7 year contract

[Lark Benson]

I wish people would take my post at it's face value instead of reading more into it than what was written. I'm not advocating tanking, and have not suggested that this is what I would like to see happen. My suggestion is simply that draft success is far more likely to lead to long-term, sustainable winning than attempting to patch together a roster via free agency and trades. This does not require tanking, but it DOES require you to miss the playoffs and not constantly 'retool' in order to fight for a first round playoff exit. People seem to think that tanking just means losing, rather than losing on purpose. A team full of young talent can still lose a lot of games, end up in the lottery and advance their cause by drafting well WITHOUT tanking.

The point I'm trying to make with the list is that the players listed were drafted and then subsequently (to differing degrees) successfully built around by their teams. Obviously just about everyone in the league is drafted, but what separates a good franchise from a bad one is often whether they've been able to luck into a top-caliber player in the draft and THEN being able to add the correct pieces around that player. That's the recipe for NBA success: find yourself some good young talent to develop, figure out what you've got and add the pieces around him that will allow his game to flourish and for the team to flourish. But you NEED a franchise talent in the NBA, often more than one. Is it any coincidence that most of the playoff teams each year have successfully built around franchise level talent that they've drafted? Of course not.

The alternative is to hope for a perfect storm of trades, drafting and free agency to bring together a team that just happens to fit well together and contains enough talent to make a deep playoff push. How do you suppose the raptors will accomplish this? What free agent franchise player do you honestly suppose they'll be able to lure? Do you really think that any established franchise player that's traded to Toronto won't bolt if the right mix of pieces aren't assembled before said contract expires, which is likely to only be 1-2 years (teams never dump franchise players unless they're nearing the end of a contract)? Where are the Raptors going to acquire the kind of talent they can build around if not through the draft? People seem to think that Chris Paul is going to magically end up in Toronto's lap without recognizing that the raps would have to gut their team to swing such a trade.

Like it or not folks, the draft is the surest way to add franchise level talent.

[vinnie_paz]

I doubt that the Rap's will win a championship in the near future thus the goal is to make the playoffs on a yearly basis and see what happens in the post season.

MBrown leads teams to 60 win seasons- 'nuf said.

"see what happens in the post season" ???

who are you ? cindarella ?

fucking tired of people who just want to finish 8th and then "see what happens"

why dont u aim for the top... finishing 8 and getting knocked out in the first round is worse than not making the playoffs cuz now u get a late draft pick... genius

[vinnie_paz]

I wish people would take my post at it's face value instead of reading more into it than what was written. I'm not advocating tanking, and have not suggested that this is what I would like to see happen. My suggestion is simply that draft success is far more likely to lead to long-term, sustainable winning than attempting to patch together a roster via free agency and trades. This does not require tanking, but it DOES require you to miss the playoffs and not constantly 'retool' in order to fight for a first round playoff exit. People seem to think that tanking just means losing, rather than losing on purpose. A team full of young talent can still lose a lot of games, end up in the lottery and advance their cause by drafting well WITHOUT tanking.

The point I'm trying to make with the list is that the players listed were drafted and then subsequently (to differing degrees) successfully built around by their teams. Obviously just about everyone in the league is drafted, but what separates a good franchise from a bad one is often whether they've been able to luck into a top-caliber player in the draft and THEN being able to add the correct pieces around that player. That's the recipe for NBA success: find yourself some good young talent to develop, figure out what you've got and add the pieces around him that will allow his game to flourish and for the team to flourish. But you NEED a franchise talent in the NBA, often more than one. Is it any coincidence that most of the playoff teams each year have successfully built around franchise level talent that they've drafted? Of course not.

The alternative is to hope for a perfect storm of trades, drafting and free agency to bring together a team that just happens to fit well together and contains enough talent to make a deep playoff push. How do you suppose the raptors will accomplish this? What free agent franchise player do you honestly suppose they'll be able to lure? Do you really think that any established franchise player that's traded to Toronto won't bolt if the right mix of pieces aren't assembled before said contract expires, which is likely to only be 1-2 years (teams never dump franchise players unless they're nearing the end of a contract)? Where are the Raptors going to acquire the kind of talent they can build around if not through the draft? People seem to think that Chris Paul is going to magically end up in Toronto's lap without recognizing that the raps would have to gut their team to swing such a trade.

Like it or not folks, the draft is the surest way to add franchise level talent.

+1

[chris]

what picks or TPE or young talent has BC offered up this year? HE HASNT! we were the ones trying to trade the high priced vets!!!!!!!!!!!! & in return would have got some good value on short term contracts! get it straight!

past years can be excluded since BC was doing everything to please Bosh so he never left & that was an epic fail!

yeah dude i think you just misunderstood me. i wasn't suggesting BC has been irresponsibly offering up all our assets, i was just making a comment re: the dichotomy of the raptor fans' state of mind - those who'd like BC to use those assets on dudes like david west or emeka okafor (see the trade proposal forum!), and the ones mostly content with going into next season with the young talent we have, developing it, and adding more young talent in next years draft.

count me firmly in the latter's camp. and my comment was meant to suggest that by taking the former approach (and executing it poorly) you run the risk of turning into the knicks.

[DoNDaDDa]

yeah dude i think you just misunderstood me. i wasn't suggesting BC has been irresponsibly offering up all our assets, i was just making a comment re: the dichotomy of the raptor fans' state of mind - those who'd like BC to use those assets on dudes like david west or emeka okafor (see the trade proposal forum!), and the ones mostly content with going into next season with the young talent we have, developing it, and adding more young talent in next years draft.

count me firmly in the latter's camp. and my comment was meant to suggest that by taking the former approach (and executing it poorly) you run the risk of turning into the knicks.

ok fair enough.. im sure though that like me most people that dont want to just stand pat with what we got and run with it,dont want to just finish 8th & loose in the first round either.

the goal every year should be to win it all & then if u dont get what your aiming for u keep trying. BEING LOOSERS JUST BREEDS LOOSERS

[chris]

the goal every year should be to win it all

but this is impossible. winning it all takes long term vision as well as great fortune. playing GM like your team is in a fantasy league by tweaking/re-tooling/whatever-the-hell-you-want-to-call-it every summer with the goal of just making the playoffs will never lead to success, as many people have pointed out about a million times on these forums, and as the raptors continue to prove season after season.

[DoNDaDDa]

but this is impossible. winning it all takes long term vision as well as great fortune. playing GM like your team is in a fantasy league by tweaking/re-tooling/whatever-the-hell-you-want-to-call-it every summer with the goal of just making the playoffs will never lead to success, as many people have pointed out about a million times on these forums, and as the raptors continue to prove season after season.

im not saying that any method of building a team is better then another cause there really is no sure way.

but the goal every year for players & GM's should be to win any way u can. dont matter if its a player on the court or a GM in the office there should never be a roll over attitude or maybe next year slogan!
a team should leave no stone unturned in the search for success.

Only one team wins in all at the end of the season so should the rest of the league just tank until they draft good players?

I dont think sooo

[Lark Benson]

im not saying that any method of building a team is better then another cause there really is no sure way.

but the goal every year for players & GM's should be to win any way u can. dont matter if its a player on the court or a GM in the office there should never be a roll over attitude or maybe next year slogan!
a team should leave no stone unturned in the search for success.

Only one team wins in all at the end of the season so should the rest of the league just tank until they draft good players?

I dont think sooo

Please don't take this the wrong way, but that kind of thinking from the bulk of Toronto sports fans is exactly why the city's teams never rebuild and spend year after year mired in mediocrity and irrelevance.

[DoNDaDDa]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but that kind of thinking from the bulk of Toronto sports fans is exactly why the city's teams never rebuild and spend year after year mired in mediocrity and irrelevance.

Toronto teams toil in mediocrity because too many fans & exec's have been way too accepting of it.

if u demand respect u will get respect.

if u demand greatness u will achive greatness

if your quick to accept a team to be crap & tank for a pick year after year then u will ALWAYS BE CRAP!

Lakers & Celtics Have Won more then half the titles in the history of the NBA because they settle for nothing less!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and they do it anyway they can!!!!!!! not by tanking every year in the hopes of getting high picks!!!

[Lark Benson]

Toronto teams toil in mediocrity because too many fans & exec's have been way too accepting of it.

if u demand respect u will get respect.

if u demand greatness u will achive greatness

if your quick to accept a team to be crap & tank for a pick year after year then u will ALWAYS BE CRAP!

Lakers & Celtics Have Won more then half the titles in the history of the NBA because they settle for nothing less!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and they do it anyway they can!!!!!!! not by tanking every year in the hopes of getting high picks!!!

I'm just going to back out of this argument at this point, because I could write a book about why I disagree with what you just wrote and frankly it's just not worth it.

[DoNDaDDa]

even the best coach's in the league demand greatness. look at papavich & jackson for instance, these guys expect to win every year, no matter if u got david robinson as your starting center or matt bonner, they still demand greatness out of everyone & thats why these types of coach's are soo successfull in creating championship teams. its the culture that these types of guys instill into players.

NOT OHHH WELL MAYBE WELL JUST DEVELOP THE YOUNG KIDS & FINISH LAST SO WE CAN GET A PICK!!

these types of views will just make the kids feel like loosing is OK and that is a dangerous thing!!!! ask TMAC & VC!!!LOL

[malefax]

I wish people would take my post at it's face value instead of reading more into it than what was written. I'm not advocating tanking,...

Like it or not folks, the draft is the surest way to add franchise level talent.

Hey, fair enough, but you posted in a thread entitled "shouldn't we HOPE for a Bad year", so it isn't too surprising that people read a bit more into it than you said, because that was what the discussion was originally about. I don't think too many people will deny that some, and often most, of your talent is going to come from the draft.

[SirChillyMost]

so if mike brown isn't coaching the cavs, they dont win 60 games?

The FACT is that Mike Brown coached Cleveland to consecutive 60 plus win seasons plus to the NBA Finals a few years back.

I don't speculate- I regulate.

[SirChillyMost]

"see what happens in the post season" ???

who are you ? cindarella ?

fucking tired of people who just want to finish 8th and then "see what happens"

why dont u aim for the top... finishing 8 and getting knocked out in the first round is worse than not making the playoffs cuz now u get a late draft pick... genius

Hold up, pump your brakes, rewind, take a deep breathe and pause.

Who said anything about finishing 8th? Insinuation is like masturbation- it only gets you off, buddy.

The playoffs include 8 teams in each Conference so anywhere between 1-8 will suffice. The playoffs are a new season and anything can happen once you get there but you have to get there 1st, kiddo.

I want the Raptor's to compete not accept defeat but it starts at the top w/ BC & Jay aka Mr No Accountability aka Mr Softie aka The Principal aka The 1st Canadian NBA Head Coach. MLSE- do you know me?lol