Hollinger Thinks The Raptors Are Losers

[Katman]

So what's the problem?

Some people in this forum aren't sharing the kool-ade.

[Apollo]

OK, without getting to deep or metaphysical here.... are you using the term "loser" to describe the entire cast of the Raptors here, or are you using it in the sense of "wins and losses". Perhaps I misinterpreted your intent here. From the point of view of "wins and losses", I don't know how you can call the team "losers", since they have yet to play even one scrimmage as a team.

I'm talking wins and losses and yeah, I can call them losers. They lost 42 games last season, 49 the year before. They're established losers and this current team doesn't look better than either of those teams. If anything, they don't look as good. This team has far more question marks than the last two years. I have the right to call them losers more so than people proclaiming that they're making the playoffs. I have the past two season's history and the fact that the team will have to depend on a bunch of young, unestablished players who have never been leaned on like this before. I've seen enough of these year one of a retooling young Raptors squads to know what's coming next. Their starting PF can't stay in games because of fouls. Their center doesn't rebound and his defense is mediocre. Whoever starts at SF will be the worst starting SF in the league. Their PGs would all be reserve guards on most contending teams. They have some nice young pieces but they all need to get used to playing together and relying on one another. None of them are proven to be able to deliver when the game is on the line. No longer do they have Chris Bosh and his great efficiency to take heat off the rest of the guys. Their defense might be the worst in the league again. I can go on.

But really, ARE they losers now....or WILL THEY BE losers, I guess that is the real question.

They're losers until they win. They've been losers for two seasons. Losing their best player doesn't help beat the label. They beat it by winning, by earning it.

I am of the mindset that we shouldn't throw them under the bus yet considering there are more roster tweaks coming and there hasn't even been one practice.

I'm not throwing anyone under the bus. I'm being fair. I don't see you jumping down people's throats who are predicting the Miami Heat as the top seed... But wait, how is it fair to say that when the season hasn't finished? Should predictions and projections be banned if they make the Raptors look bad?

[Multipaul]

None of them are proven to be able to deliver when the game is on the line. No longer do they have Chris Bosh and his great efficiency to take heat off the rest of the guys.

Well...he did draw the double team didn't he...but did he do the right thing with it...50/50 at best....

Clearly you have a "guilty until proven innocent" mentality. Your historical cross-reference is not totally valid though. Since our offensive scheme was oriented around CB heavily for the last 4 years or so, I don't think you can use our previous efforts as a litmus test for this year.

Defensively speaking, it remains to be seen. Again, it is really apples to oranges comparing the unknown variables of this years vs data from the last couple of years.

Of course predictions and projections should not be banned, but I get the distinct impression you are angry that people like myself might actually have a positive attitude NOW about our potential to achieve in the future, re- this season.

[vinnie_paz]

i would take:

the clips roster with kaman n griffin
the nets roster with lopez n favors

over the raps...

bigs who can defend the paint, and clean the glass is what wins games...

bargs and amir is probably the worst front court duo in the league...sorry to say.

[vinnie_paz]

Well...he did draw the double team didn't he...but did he do the right thing with it...50/50 at best....

Clearly you have a "guilty until proven innocent" mentality. Your historical cross-reference is not totally valid though. Since our offensive scheme was oriented around CB heavily for the last 4 years or so, I don't think you can use our previous efforts as a litmus test for this year.

Defensively speaking, it remains to be seen. Again, it is really apples to oranges comparing the unknown variables of this years vs data from the last couple of years.

Of course predictions and projections should not be banned, but I get the distinct impression you are angry that people like myself might actually have a positive attitude NOW about our potential to achieve in the future, re- this season.

so what about the cavs ?

do you think it's ok to predict they wont win as many games as they did last season ?

even though they havnt played a game yet ?

[Krix]

i would take:

the clips roster with kaman n griffin
the nets roster with lopez n favors

over the raps...

bigs who can defend the paint, and clean the glass is what wins games...

bargs and amir is probably the worst front court duo in the league...sorry to say.

I would take those front court over ours any day as well. Face it, those front courts have more in both talent and potential.

I think the Raptors' roster is best described as a team full of bench players. Bargs is arguably our only starter.

[vinnie_paz]

Of course predictions and projections should not be banned, but I get the distinct impression you are angry that people like myself might actually have a positive attitude NOW about our potential to achieve in the future, re- this season.

the original projection was for this upcoming year... not 2-5 years from now...only the upcoming season...

and yea it takes a season or 2 for young players to develop...so by saying this season coming up is going to result in more losses than last year is accurate...

you dont think from game 1 they are gona gel and start winning do you?

did you see the cavs first year with lbj ? go check their record.

[vinnie_paz]

I would take those front court over ours any day as well. Face it, those front courts have more in both talent and potential.

I think the Raptors' roster is best described as a team full of bench players. Bargs is arguably our only starter.

haha yea and even the one player who is arguably our starter CANT REBOUND !!

[mo-sales]

KG and JO is the worst front court in the league. The raptors have a very underrated front court in my opinion. Bargs is finally playing with someone who will help him on defense, they both block shots and take up different floor spots on offense.

Favors is a long, long, long way away from making a positive contribution in this league. The nets are going to be bad again because they have no defense in the front court and no depth on thier team. Clippers are going to make playoffs though, they finally have a nice looking team.

This whole Amir can't stay on the floor because of fouls has become one of the stupidest arguments in history. He has never had enough minutes to warrant stay on the floor so he has used his fouls. In the 6 games where Bosh was out he didn't foul out once and only played under 25 minutes once. The guy has fast feet, a high IQ and great length. This whole notion that he won't be able to stay on the court is ridiculous. Name the last athletic player whose career was derailed because he couldn't stop fouling? Worst case scenario he can't stay on the floor, then Davis gets more minutes as a defensive, shot blocking PF who could end finish next season as the 2nd best big in a draft loaded with bigs.

[Apollo]

Well...he did draw the double team didn't he...but did he do the right thing with it...50/50 at best...

Bosh was hands down the best scorer on the Raptors. The stats support it and so does game film.

Clearly you have a "guilty until proven innocent" mentality. Your historical cross-reference is not totally valid though. Since our offensive scheme was oriented around CB heavily for the last 4 years or so, I don't think you can use our previous efforts as a litmus test for this year.

My mentality: call it like it is. This team, right now at this stage of development, is not as good as the 2009 Raptors or the 2008 Raptors, both of which were losers.

Who can create their own shot? Who can take the big shots? Who takes the shot when everyone is covered at the end of the clock? Do they convert in those scenarios efficiently and why?

Of course predictions and projections should not be banned, but I get the distinct impression you are angry that people like myself might actually have a positive attitude NOW about our potential to achieve in the future, re- this season.

I love listening to different opinions and ideas. I am not angry but I don't like people belittling others for their views. I took exception to that.

[vinnie_paz]

Bargs is finally playing with someone who will help him on defense, they both block shots and take up different floor spots on offense.

The nets are going to be bad again because they have no defense in the front court and no depth on thier team.

they both take up different floor spots on offense ?? ummm whhaaaat ??

no defense for the nets ? yea hav u heard of brook lopez

[Babyface_killah]

KG and JO is the worst front court in the league. The raptors have a very underrated front court in my opinion. Bargs is finally playing with someone who will help him on defense, they both block shots and take up different floor spots on offense.

Favors is a long, long, long way away from making a positive contribution in this league. The nets are going to be bad again because they have no defense in the front court and no depth on thier team. Clippers are going to make playoffs though, they finally have a nice looking team.

This whole Amir can't stay on the floor because of fouls has become one of the stupidest arguments in history. He has never had enough minutes to warrant stay on the floor so he has used his fouls. In the 6 games where Bosh was out he didn't foul out once and only played under 25 minutes once. The guy has fast feet, a high IQ and great length. This whole notion that he won't be able to stay on the court is ridiculous. Name the last athletic player whose career was derailed because he couldn't stop fouling? Worst case scenario he can't stay on the floor, then Davis gets more minutes as a defensive, shot blocking PF who could end finish next season as the 2nd best big in a draft loaded with bigs.

How is KG and JO the worst front court in the NBA?????? At worst they will play great defense and hit the open jumpshot. Amir to me isn't that great of rebounder to cover Bargnani's rebounding woes. I like Amir but he isn't the ideal front court player with Bargs.

The nets will be much better next year. The biggest problem with that team last year was the injuries (they had TON of injuries) and that they were very undisciplined. The latter part will be fixed with new Nets coaching staff (Avery will be able to control T-will) and I think they can stay healthy, plus I would MUCH rather have Brook Lopez as my starting 5 than Andrea Bargnani.

[Babyface_killah]

I don't see how thinking this team won't be good next year equals being a hater. Just because I am a fan of the raptors doesn't mean I have to over-rate this team. I like your optimism, but I don't think you have try to shut down anyone who believes this team won't be playoff team (I really don't believe that though_

[Hassan]

hollinger is a little bitch

[vinnie_paz]

How is KG and JO the worst front court in the NBA?????? At worst they will play great defense and hit the open jumpshot. Amir to me isn't that great of rebounder to cover Bargnani's rebounding woes. I like Amir but he isn't the ideal front court player with Bargs.

The nets will be much better next year. The biggest problem with that team last year was the injuries (they had TON of injuries) and that they were very undisciplined. The latter part will be fixed with new Nets coaching staff (Avery will be able to control T-will) and I think they can stay healthy, plus I would MUCH rather have Brook Lopez as my starting 5 than Andrea Bargnani.

thanks, i was gona reply to mo-sales post but knew it would take long...