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  • Wait To Move Calderon?

    Theres a lot of talk about how the Raptors need to get rid of Jose Calderon for numerous reasons. But I think Calderon is due for a comeback season. Last year he battled injuries, was a part of the worst defensive team in the nba, endured turkoglu wanting "ball", and the whole Raptors squad had the Bosh situation looming above them pretty much the entire year. He clearly wasn't shooting the ball like we've seen him do in the past, and he wasn't blowing by anyone or being aggresive going to the hole. In his contract year he was playing at a level we sometimes forget about since last year was so brutal. But Jose was a legit starter putting up good numbers even while his role has never been secure. If jose comes back in shape with his jumper goin, I would hang onto him unless we get a legit offer. He will no doubt be motivated to show he is worth something given that the team he has loved since he came into the league tried to trade him away. The guy loves Toronto and will play like a man who wants to keep his job next season. Also with the departure of two guys who needed the ball a lot to be successful, Jose has a chance to develop an offensive chemistry with the young players (more so than Jack who is less of a pure playmaking point.) His trade value is so low right now BC should hang onto him until he can get a proven contributor or some valubale picks. It would be bad to let him go for nothing before knowing what he was capable of this upcoming year.

  • #2
    I agree wholeheartedly

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    • #3
      +1

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      • #4
        2 late...

        It's 2 late for that..especially that he almost moved and that raptors are going 2 be more defensive minded team.
        He doesen't fit this team.
        He is as good as gone...Indiana might be destination that he moves 2.

        http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=17008
        "Never apologize for coming to me. Office hours are for patients.
        My kitchen is always open to friends"

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        • #5
          Unless it's for an expiring player or for a player that could be useful, I can't see us just giving him away.

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          • #6
            Dr Hannibal Lecter wrote: View Post
            It's 2 late for that..especially that he almost moved and that raptors are going 2 be more defensive minded team.
            He doesen't fit this team.
            He is as good as gone...Indiana might be destination that he moves 2.

            http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=17008
            What hints that we're more of a defensive team this season? Barbosa? Andersen? Kleiza?
            I'd keep Calderon until we get a decent offer for the guy. He still has value. Hoopsworld is like throwing spaghetti on the wall - Throw enough of it and Eventually some of it is gonna stick.
            Last edited by MangoKid; Thu Aug 5, 2010, 10:40 AM.

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            • #7
              On any other team, Calderon would be great and his defensive liabilities wouldn't be as magnified. Derek Fisher is as bad a defender but never gets called on because he has Artest, Bynum and Gasol to help him out. The "clap" defence was the worst I've seen personally and coupling that with Bargs and Johnson down low for defence is a recipe for disaster. Unfortunately, his contract is even worse than his defence. I feel that this is one mistake of BC that he won't be able to correct to the franchise's liking. The franchise stands to lose out on something to move him out. Several sources point to Indiana, so getting Dunleavy will probably as good as it gets. If it's the Knicks (yes, I know they have Felton - relax), it could be Chandler but we gotta take back Curry (for Calderon and Evans). It's a dent. Personally, he needs to stay, either start or off the bench to build his value. Somewhere along the season, an injury to a major PG will happen and they will come-a-knockin' on BC's door. They won't get much back in return but at least we get him off our books (almost like giving Alex Rios away for nothing - unfortunately, he's doing very well with the Sox, same could go for Calderon if dealt).

              For the sake of the team, Jack needs to start but he needs to really change his mindset to be successful. Jack needs to cut the turnovers down, stop trying to be too much of a hero at times and all should be well. I also feel that Jack has a better rapport with Johnson, Weems and DeRozan. I'm a firm believer that a 2-headed monster with Calderon and Jack would be difficult for teams to handle especially when the opposing second unit comes on. If Calderon made 4-5 Mil, I feel that the Raps would keep him despite his defensive inefficiency since his offensive and passing skills still outweigh them. He's staying, unless an offer is placed on the table. Once training camp starts, many teams will want to place emphasis on the PG right away as they are the focal point of offense on teams - in essence, he may be as good as gone by September...
              Last edited by Balls of Steel; Thu Aug 5, 2010, 10:57 AM.

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              • #8
                Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
                On any other team, Calderon would be great and his defensive liabilities wouldn't be as magnified. Derek Fisher is as bad a defender but never gets called on because he has Artest, Bynum and Gasol to help him out. The "clap" defence was the worst I've seen personally and coupling that with Bargs and Johnson down low for defence is a recipe for disaster. Unfortunately, his contract is even worse than his defence. I feel that this is one mistake of BC that he won't be able to correct to the franchise's liking. The franchise stands to lose out on something to move him out. Several sources point to Indiana, so getting Dunleavy will probably as good as it gets. If it's the Knicks (yes, I know they have Felton - relax), it could be Chandler but we gotta take back Curry. It's a dent. Personally, he needs to stay, either start or off the bench to build his value. Somewhere along the season, an injury to a major PG will happen and they will come-a-knockin' on BC's door. They won't get much back in return but at least we get him off our books (almost like giving Alex Rios away for nothing - unfortunately, he's doing very well with the Sox, same could go for Calderon if dealt).

                For the sake of the team, Jack needs to start but he needs to really change his mindset to be successful. Jack needs to cut the turnovers down, stop trying to be too much of a hero at times and all should be well. I also feel that Jack has a better rapport with Johnson, Weems and DeRozan. I'm a firm believer that a 2-headed monster with Calderon and Jack would be difficult for teams to handle especially when the opposing second unit comes on. If Calderon made 4-5 Mil, I feel that the Raps would keep him despite his defensive inefficiency since his offensive and passing skills still outweigh them. He's staying, unless an offer is placed on the table. Once training camp starts, many teams will want to place emphasis on the PG right away as they are the focal point of offense on teams - in essence, he may be as good as gone by September...
                +10

                When calderon has the ball, he rarely takes fast break opportunities. He likes slowing down and playing pass to pass to pass ball. The raptors have said they are going to be a defence minded, run and gun team. He is neither. He could do great things in a memphis.

                RAW

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                • #9
                  I also forgot to add that without Bosh, we're probably going to need more of a "drive and kick" PG (something that Jack would be more comfortable doing). That said, a 2-guard situation would give opposing teams 2 different looks on offence - Jack (drive and kick) and Calderon (pick and pop).

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                  • #10
                    keep Calderon, his value is obviously low right now versus his contract. Do not have to ship him out right away, Indy is also interested in JACK according to the source posted above. I think Jack and Barbosa have some redundancy. Calderon's stock will rise this season and will be much easier to shed at the deadline, if we still want to do so. I still think that Calderon will be more effective lobing passes to the young gunz then Jack. Either way i think we get a better deal for him if we wait.
                    "They're going to have to rename the whole conference after us: Toronto Raptors 2014-2015 Northern Conference Champions" ~ ezzbee Dec. 2014

                    "I guess I got a little carried away there" ~ ezzbee Apr. 2015

                    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

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                    • #11
                      We have 27 million sitting at our PG position. I know BC likes to advocate using Jack and Barbosa at 2 but the past has shown both plays are not suitable for 2. BC is just trying to save face and take some pressure of himself. 27 million in one position,

                      Are you kidding me ?

                      This happens when you over pay players ( Calderon). That trade kicker of 10% adds another 3 million to Jose's contract. BC has been trying to move Jose for all of the last month and is not getting anyone to bite. Jose is here to Stay and so is Jack and Barboa and Banks
                      Last edited by Raptor4Ever; Thu Aug 5, 2010, 12:24 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Calderon should be given the opportunity to have a comeback season. If he approaches the golden trio of shooting percentages (>40% 3fg, >50%fg, >90% ft) that he achieved in '07-'08 and almost achieved in '08-'09, we'll be able to get a much better return for him than we ever could right now. It shouldn't be hard for Calderon to have better assist numbers without Turkoglu fiending for more BALL and without Bosh slowing down the offence. Calderon's chemistry with Amir, Sonny, and DeRozen will determine the flow of offense when he's on the floor, and while he does tend to slow things down a bit more, Calderon can throw different looks at the opposing defense by changing speeds and dishing out solid alley-oop opportunities which he still does better than Jack.

                        As far as defensive liabilities are concerned, at least we'll be able to see if Calderon's so-called "Matador" defense can be better concealed this year by increased defensive prowess by the bigs on the floor.

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                        • #13
                          Yes we all know about Calderon's bad defense and yes his contract is not a good one to say the least. However, the reality of it is that if he is still playing for the Raptors in 10-11 he will be one of the best second team point guards in the league. I don't think that there is that much of an overall difference in Calderon's and Jack's games. Yes Jack is a better defender but Calderon is definitely a better passer, ball handler (lower TO ratio) and shooter than Jack.

                          Not a lot of teams can say that their point guard position does not suffer a serious fall off when the second string PG comes in.

                          The Raptors are not going to be able to trade for any kind of equivalency or equal ability in a PG unless they trade up and pay more. Reason.

                          The reason that Calderon';s contract looks so bad is because of the tremendous influx into the NBA over the last three drafts of excellent PGs. So all of these guys are still on their rookie contracts.

                          Yes Calderon is probably not worth more than $7 million a year, I do think Jack is underpaid.
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                          • #14
                            MangoKid wrote: View Post
                            Hoopsworld is like throwing spaghetti on the wall - Throw enough of it and Eventually some of it is gonna stick.
                            This doesn't work if the spaghetti is dry. I just tried it.

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                            • #15
                              The problem I have with the line up is Calderon + Bargnani is one hole too many. They absolutely cannot and should not play together. What Jose needs to hide his defensive liabilities is good team help defense so he can funnel his guy into the defense. Bargnani can't provide that (Amir fouls too much), and BC knows this so he has to trade one of them. No need to guess who he's decided to trade. I do hope he concedes and trades both somewhere down the line. But that would depend, I guess, on how Bargs performs in his 5th season (BC said wait 5 years to evaluate Bargs- that time is now).

                              I actually like Calderon as a back up, like he did 3 years ago and part of last season. But his contract (damn you BC) takes too much cap space it hampers the team from getting better players at other positions. He is also currently our best playmaker.

                              I'm confident that BC will wait until he has a good deal, and won't settle.

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