Pacers Trying To Land Calderon?

[vinnie_paz]

WTF

So your saying that 1) lakers never one a title with run and gun style, and 2) when they did versus the BOSTON CELTICS, the celtics werent committed to d!!!

omfg

i am shocked

just

shoc...

shocked

nooooo lol which lakers are you talking about ? the 2010 champs ? i dont think they were "run n gun."

[Red and White]

It seems to me that the "take over games" thingy is over blown and may not even be valid.

The Lakers are always better when Kobe doesn't have "to take over" a game. Very good teams are like that. They are very good because they don't rely on one player to have "to take over" the game. Would the Cavs have been able to get the Finals the last two years if they hadn't depended so much on Lebron "to take over" so often during the regular season? My thinking is yes they would have.

The Raptors as a team need to play good solid basketball for 48 minutes a game then they won't have the need for anyone "to take over" so often and as a result be a better team.

The Lakers, Celtics, Pistons and Spurs who have I believe won all the NBA titles over the last 9 years? except one have won because they had numerous good players and played good team basketball, not because they had one guy "to take over" the game.

You bring up an interesting point in that the cavs would have been able to make it to the finals if lebron didnt "take over" all the time and everyone contributed. But the opposite can be argued, if the raptors, lets say, acquired granger, we would do better with him "taking over" then if he wasnt on the team at all. What i mean is in the 90's with Jordan and the bulls, they played solid team ball with horace grant, pippen, paxon, amrstrong, and rodman. When the team was faulting, though, they had jordan to bail them out. The reason that teams like the Lakers, and Celtics, and spurs, were successful, was because they had proven stars (stress on the STARS)

we dont, i dont think at this point it would not be bad to have a standup guy and player like granger to be on this team, a player who can take over a game. The Bulls were successful because they had many solid players, but in the games where it wasnt flowing, they could depend on one guy who can bail them out. Bosh wasn't like that, his mentality was to play his position as best as possible, but he would not get the ball every possession in close games. I think that the raptors should play ball for 48 minutes, as they showed this year you have to play 48 minutes to be successful, but all great teams, especially all the ones you mentioned, had and have players that take control of the games. LA has kobe, as much as they have a great team, they needed him to do so many times. Detroit had billups, who in the playoffs, probably got them the champion ship by taking over games by finding people with good looks, and shooting the ball. SA has tony parker, and tim duncan, when they won the champion ship, both had games where they controlled the games. Even the celtics this year showed this too, when rondo took control (maybe less so then the other guys) during games when playing Cleveland. Paul Pierce when they won in 2008 toke over games aswell.

Teams play their best when everyone is contributing, but in order to win rings, you need players to take control when those important games arent working.

RAW

[LBF]

nooooo lol which lakers are you talking about ? the 2010 champs ? i dont think they were "run n gun."

no, he's talking about out of all 16 of the lakers titles they've never won one as a run n' gun team.

to answer that the 80's lakers did.

[Apollo]

Indy Called A Couple Times

Q: Simple question: Why is Jose Calderon so hard to trade? By now, it's no secret the Raptors are trying very hard to move Jose and having little luck. Yes, Jose is a bad defender, is over-paid and is too careful with the ball, but he is a low-mistake point guard who can take care of the ball and shoots well. Surely, there must be a team who wants him?!

Kate M, Ottawa

A: I’m not sure he’s “so hard to trade” at all; there is a fair bit of interest out there – I know for a fact Indy’s called a few times – and it could be just a matter of the Raptors waiting at a lull time in the summer to get the best offer.

Doug Smith's Blog

[LBF]

there's waiting for the best offer and there's waiting too long and you luck out, indy gets a pg and jose stays here.

it's starting to get towards the latter.

[heinz57]

the more i think about it, the more i wouldn't mind seeing calderon on the raps when every play isn't "feed bosh and wait for the kick out that isnt coming"

if only he'd stop clapping...

[Red and White]

nooooo lol which lakers are you talking about ? the 2010 champs ? i dont think they were "run n gun."

IT WAS THE 80's!!!

The LA Lakers played the boston celtics in the finals. Lakers had magic, worthy, rambus, abdul, etc Celtics had Bird, Parrish, Mchale, Johnson.

They beat the celtics twice, and this was the celtic team that had the best home court ever. You ever wonder why people made a big deal about Lakers vs celtics in the past 3 years? IT is because through out history they have battles against eachother hard. Celtics were less run and gun and less flashy, while the lakers were run and gun. They were beat by the lakers, and they we committed to D while it happened. Anyone can win with run and gun style, but you need to do it right!

The Lakers knew how do do it, and just because they were run and gun, dosnt mean they didnt play defence. The reason that the raptors wont win a champion ship this year is because of defence. That is the only reason they dont win championships, and until they can play defence, we wont be abled to get out of the bottom tier of teams. We need to make a trade for a hibbert, or a thabeet (even though risky) it is a thing that had to be done.

RAW

[Red and White]

the more i think about it, the more i wouldn't mind seeing calderon on the raps when every play isn't "feed bosh and wait for the kick out that isnt coming"

if only he'd stop clapping...

Hahaha that is very true, but as of now, with all the holes we have in the paint, we need a pg who can keep guys out of the paint. If were playing teams with attacking pg's like boston, chicago,utah etc, we not only would get abused by them on posting up, but when d will drives to the net, he is either gonna score, or give someone an easy basket. That is why calderon dosnt work for the raptors, offensively he plays best with out a bosh on the floor, because it gives him time to showcase his skills like passing. The raptors were tough to watch last year when they would dump it to bosh, and then all stand around...

[JoePanini]

We managed to get rid of Turk, we can do the same with Calderon, plus Indiana clearly needs him. They need a pure point. No one in the league would give up a pure point guard, apart from the Raps.... I dream Granger. But if we really want to get rid of his huge contract, I wouldn't mind McRoberts :P HAHA

[heinz57]

We managed to get rid of Turk, we can do the same with Calderon, plus Indiana clearly needs him.

i do find it awfully mind boggling that BC managed to get rid of turk before jose.. for all his faults (clapping), jose has been nothing but a solid citizen here. he's been nothing but appreciative to the franchise and the fans, really good shooter and passer, plays into the team concept even when that concept goes against his natural inclinations (feed bosh, stand around and wait)

time will tell, i guess. there's plenty of off-season left.

[JoePanini]

I think Calderon is a great passer actually, great court vision... I think maybe give him time till Christmas, with some new fire power, Calderon could go back to his 08 season...

[Apollo]

IT WAS THE 80's!!!

The LA Lakers played the boston celtics in the finals. Lakers had magic, worthy, rambus, abdul, etc Celtics had Bird, Parrish, Mchale, Johnson.

They beat the celtics twice, and this was the celtic team that had the best home court ever. You ever wonder why people made a big deal about Lakers vs celtics in the past 3 years? IT is because through out history they have battles against eachother hard. Celtics were less run and gun and less flashy, while the lakers were run and gun. They were beat by the lakers, and they we committed to D while it happened. Anyone can win with run and gun style, but you need to do it right!

The Lakers knew how do do it, and just because they were run and gun, dosnt mean they didnt play defence. The reason that the raptors wont win a champion ship this year is because of defence. That is the only reason they dont win championships, and until they can play defence, we wont be abled to get out of the bottom tier of teams. We need to make a trade for a hibbert, or a thabeet (even though risky) it is a thing that had to be done.

RAW

You neglect to mention that both those teams were elite on defense. Sure, you can win with run and gun if you defend at a high level. Defense wins championships.

YEAR---CHAMP---D-RANK---O-Rank
09/10---Lakers--- 8th---12th
08/09---Lakers---13rd---3rd
07/08---Celtics---2nd---11th
06/07---Spurs---1st---14th
05/06---Heat---14th---6th
04/05---Spurs---1st---18th
03/04---Pistons---2nd---25th
02/03---Lakers---24th---4th
01/02---Lakers---8th---3rd

Average Defensive Rank: 8th
Average Offensive Rank: 11th

The only clubs to win a championship in the last nine years who didn't at least play top ten defense had at least two future hall-of-famers on the club. Unless you feel the Raptors can land or develop those kind of players AND keep them maybe it's best you forget this run and gun idea as Toronto's ticket to glory. Those who have won with it in your example have had a legendary rotations; as in any one of their players in the starting five would be better than Toronto's best player right now.

Not to mention you have to consider the fact that you're using 20+ year old examples. The game has changed and so have the rules since then.

[Marz]

No, defense does not win championships. It's the biggest sports cliche that gets thrown around everywhere. You need a proper balance between offense and defense. We had defense in the Kevin O'Neil era. It was great defense. It was elite defense. But we had one of the worst offensive teams I'd ever seen! There are two parts of basketball, offense and defense. Focusing on one and not the other is a recipe for failure. If we ignore the Pistons anomaly, most teams had a pretty decent balance between offense and defense.

[Apollo]

I think you're off. The team you're talking about had no talent. Teams without talent can't win games. Offensively, balanced or defensively, they'll never make it without talent. Kev is a defensive mastermind and one of the toughest coaches in the league. He ruled with an iron fist and forced that team to play good defense but the team stunk to high heaven. This is a poor example. For the Raptors defense does win championships. They're not going to be able to get a dominate lineup on par with Shaq & Kobe or Shaq & Wade. They need to go the Pistons and Spurs route if they want to win it; talented hard working players getting there on defense and playing together. Those two teams had lots of talent that complemented each other, they scored enough but they won on the defensive end.

[vinnie_paz]

i do find it awfully mind boggling that BC managed to get rid of turk before jose.. for all his faults (clapping), jose has been nothing but a solid citizen here. he's been nothing but appreciative to the franchise and the fans, really good shooter and passer, plays into the team concept even when that concept goes against his natural inclinations (feed bosh, stand around and wait)

time will tell, i guess. there's plenty of off-season left.

umm maybe b/c turk consistently puts up good numbers... even in his year with toronto. he put up 11 4 n 4. but there are multiple seasons where he has put up 16 5 n 5.

dont be fooled into thiinking jose is appreciative of the fans and loves the city... i dont think BC's first offer to jose was a contract where he would make $45 million in 5 years... jose and his agent had to have demanded that much.