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  • #16
    We lost our best player, and got nothing in return. We've done relatively little to replace his talent. Raptors management definitely deserves a D.
    "Be true to the game, because the game will be true to you. If you try to shortcut the game, then the game will shortcut you. If you put forth the effort, good things will be bestowed upon you. That's true about the game, and in some ways about life too." ~ Michael Jordan
    ------------------------------------------
    "Inaction breeds doubt and fear. Action breeds confidence and courage. If you want to conquer fear, do not sit at home and think about it. Go out and get busy." ~ Dale Carnegie

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    • #17
      jjiio wrote: View Post
      Simply one of the worst signings ever.
      That is, by far, the biggest exaggeration I have ever seen in my entire life!!!
      Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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      • #18
        jjiio wrote: View Post
        So, the game today is called: Find some stats that make Amir and his signing look good? For what he has shown so far, he is overpaid. And please don't tell me, he's got a contract for what kind of player he may be in 2 years. Every GM who has to gamble like this should be fired. Simply one of the worst signings ever. I can't imagine what contract they want to give to Demar. Max-money?
        Okay I will make nice

        Based upon what you said do you think that the Raptors

        1. Should try and trade Amir
        2. Should just keep in on the bench
        3. Should give him a few scrap minutes here and there
        4. Should put him in street clothes for the next five years.

        Seriously now that the Raptors have given to Johnson one of the worst contracts ever in your opinion what should the Raptors do to rectify the situation?

        Thanks
        Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

        Memories some so sweet, indeed

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        Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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        • #19
          bhattmagandhi wrote: View Post
          We lost our best player, and got nothing in return. We've done relatively little to replace his talent. Raptors management definitely deserves a D.
          Well, actually, the Raptors lost the best player, which is bad, but got back a couple of draft picks and a big trade exception, which they haven't used, yet. They also were able to sign Kleiza, who should end up being a good signing, and traded Turkoglu away for a younger player making less money, with a shorter contract, who may well score as much as Turkoglu does this season. They've been able to get younger and not do anything that risks the future. I don't think they've done well this season, but certainly have done better than Cleveland and have not had a completely horrible offseason.
          Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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          • #20
            dagon420 wrote: View Post
            Uhhhh, cleveland still has a ton of decent players such as Varaejo, Jamison, Williams, Powe, Sessions, Hickson....

            But no stars. Same boat as the raps.
            powe is awful. get out of here.
            If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

            Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

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            • #21
              your mom wrote: View Post
              Well said. Totally agreed with on my part.
              hi mom!
              If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

              Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

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              • #22
                Buddahfan wrote: View Post
                I have already proven that if Johnson plays at just the same level in 10-11 that he did in 09-10 that for 10-11 the Raptors will not be overpaying him....
                BC overpaid Amir simply because, Amir would have taken less. Amir, himself, said he was surprised by the offer. So even if he transforms himself into the second coming of Karl Malone and starts in the All Star game, BC overpaid him.

                One of a GM's prime responsibilities is to know the market, know the players and to spend as little as possible against the cap to sign them.

                So all the statistics in the world may show Amir is worth more than he got but they don't change the fact that BC paid him more than he had to.

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                • #23
                  Paradigm Shift wrote: View Post
                  BC overpaid Amir simply because, Amir would have taken less. Amir, himself, said he was surprised by the offer. So even if he transforms himself into the second coming of Karl Malone and starts in the All Star game, BC overpaid him.

                  One of a GM's prime responsibilities is to know the market, know the players and to spend as little as possible against the cap to sign them.

                  So all the statistics in the world may show Amir is worth more than he got but they don't change the fact that BC paid him more than he had to.
                  Can you bring a link to a story or a video or audio interview with Amir or his agent that backs up what you are saying?


                  If not it seems to me that you can read Amir's mind and facial expressions.

                  That is one heck of a ability that you have

                  Congratulations
                  Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

                  Memories some so sweet, indeed

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                  • #24
                    Buddahfan wrote: View Post
                    Can you bring a link to a story or a video or audio interview with Amir or his agent that backs up what you are saying?


                    If not it seems to me that you can read Amir's mind and facial expressions.

                    That is one heck of a ability that you have

                    Congratulations
                    Link to one of the most awkward news conference answers ever!! Amir saying he was looking for 25-30's. Just watch Colangelo and Triano squirm. It happens at the 3:50 mark of the news conference video.

                    edit - Just realized the link goes to all the raptors TV videos. The video i am referring to is on page 5 of that link, and it is the Amir News Conference. If someone can embed the video in the thread that would be great.

                    PS - not an Amir hater and I do think he will have a good year, however, I agree that even Amir thinks they exceeded his expectations.
                    Last edited by BC Boy; Tue Sep 7, 2010, 11:46 PM.

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                    • #25
                      Hey BC Boy!

                      Way to demystify my ability to read minds!

                      Buddahfan,

                      I was explicit that I was not talking about Amir's worth. I don't think it is out of the question that he will earn his money. I hope to hell he does.... but nothing that happens in the future will change the fact that he was overpaid this summer.......because he could have been signed by Toronto for less $.
                      Last edited by Paradigm Shift; Wed Sep 8, 2010, 12:31 AM.

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                      • #26
                        BC Boy wrote: View Post
                        Link to one of the most awkward news conference answers ever!! Amir saying he was looking for 25-30's. Just watch Colangelo and Triano squirm. It happens at the 3:50 mark of the news conference video.

                        edit - Just realized the link goes to all the raptors TV videos. The video i am referring to is on page 5 of that link, and it is the Amir News Conference. If someone can embed the video in the thread that would be great.

                        PS - not an Amir hater and I do think he will have a good year, however, I agree that even Amir thinks they exceeded his expectations.
                        This is old news. All he says is that he was looking at about $25 million which is about what I was looking at. The guaranteed amount is for $30 million.

                        Now there are several possibilities here with regard to why he said that.

                        1. He could truly have been offered more per season than he thought he would get offered. This could have been for a number of reasons which are unknown.


                        2. He could have been expecting a contract for only four years and was looking at it the same way that I was at the time; i.e., $25 million for 4 years. So BC gave him an extra year which he didn't expect. I even posted that at the time. Considering that Amir will be only 27 in the fifth year, signing him for five years rather than four is not overpaying him.


                        3. It could be that he was just being in character at that press conference. He has always said the right things in public about other players and management. We all know it is nice and makes everyone happy when an employee says in public that he/she got a bigger raise then they were expecting, Especially when it is at a press conference that you are asked the question. This is even more true when the person who gave you a raise is in the room with you.

                        So he may just have been gracious and a bit self-effacing which is totally in keeping with the public persona he has exhibited since he has been in the NBA.


                        4. It could be that he just wanted to return to Toronto and that in his last communication with his agent before he got the news of the offer, his agent was playing the old game of: They are only offering $25, but I will see what I can do for you" When in fact the Raptors may have offered $34 million to begin with. This way his agent can go off and come back with the higher offer to make himself look good and make the player happy because he got more than he thought he was going to get based upon his last communication with his agent.

                        Bottom line is that we will never know which of those scenarios is true.
                        Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

                        Memories some so sweet, indeed

                        Larger Photo of the avatar



                        Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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                        • #27
                          Buddahfan wrote: View Post
                          This is old news. All he says is that he was looking at about $25 million which is about what I was looking at. The guaranteed amount is for $30 million.

                          Now there are several possibilities here with regard to why he said that.

                          1. He could truly have been offered more per season than he thought he would get offered. This could have been for a number of reasons which are unknown.


                          2. He could have been expecting a contract for only four years and was looking at it the same way that I was at the time; i.e., $25 million for 4 years. So BC gave him an extra year which he didn't expect. I even posted that at the time. Considering that Amir will be only 27 in the fifth year, signing him for five years rather than four is not overpaying him.


                          3. It could be that he was just being in character at that press conference. He has always said the right things in public about other players and management. We all know it is nice and makes everyone happy when an employee says in public that he/she got a bigger raise then they were expecting, Especially when it is at a press conference that you are asked the question. This is even more true when the person who gave you a raise is in the room with you.

                          So he may just have been gracious and a bit self-effacing which is totally in keeping with the public persona he has exhibited since he has been in the NBA.


                          4. It could be that he just wanted to return to Toronto and that in his last communication with his agent before he got the news of the offer, his agent was playing the old game of: They are only offering $25, but I will see what I can do for you" When in fact the Raptors may have offered $34 million to begin with. This way his agent can go off and come back with the higher offer to make himself look good and make the player happy because he got more than he thought he was going to get based upon his last communication with his agent.

                          Bottom line is that we will never know which of those scenarios is true.
                          All I know is that Amir looks like a kid that just got a bigger allowance than he expected (a mix of emotions between shock and humility from the contract... which is endearing) and Colangelo looks like a parent that realized he just got hosed!! You're right about the fact that I am reading into facial expressions and body language, but I cannot help feeling awkward every time I watch it.

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                          • #28
                            BC Boy wrote: View Post
                            All I know is that Amir looks like a kid that just got a bigger allowance than he expected (a mix of emotions between shock and humility from the contract... which is endearing) and Colangelo looks like a parent that realized he just got hosed!! You're right about the fact that I am reading into facial expressions and body language, but I cannot help feeling awkward every time I watch it.
                            Interesting comment about a personal feeling

                            It seems to me that Amir wanted to stay with the Raptors more than he wanted the money. I can think of a number of reasons that he would want to stay with the Raptors.

                            He was grinning the whole time. I think he was relieved and happy to have gotten what he primarily wanted, which was to stay with the Raptors.

                            Reasons why I know Amir would have wanted to stay with the Raptors having nothing to do with money.

                            1. He is a loyal person. He stated so much in resigning with the Pistons three years ago even though the word was the Spurs had offered him more money. He said at the time that one of the main reasons that he resigned with the Pistons was because they were the team that first drafted him out of high school, which is those days was a big deal if you didn't want to go to college, since Europe was not considered an alternative to college in those days.

                            2. He is tight with DeRozan. They pal around a lot in Los Angeles and play hoops together at places like the HAX in the summer.

                            3. He got in my opinion some very good coaching from the Raptors last season especially from English who was able to be a big help and factor in Amir's developing offensive game.

                            4. He probably knew that Bosh was going to leave so he knew he would have a great opportunity in Toronto. I am sure that it was discussed during the contract negotiations

                            5. The Raptors have a young team with a more than a handful being very young and athletic like himself

                            6. He likes the city. Why not.

                            From what I have learned about him over the years is that he is not a big ego head and more self-effacing so the money part of the contract is not as important to him as it is to a lot of players.

                            So he could have been willing to stay for less money because of those factors. Therefore one could say that BC may have paid Amir more than he had to. However, based upon what I have seen of his play and yes the stats I think that his 2010-11 salary at about $750,000 below the league average is a fair salary for 10-11 even if he doesn't improve in 10-11.

                            Of course he doesn't improve over the next five seasons than it could be that he will become overpaid.

                            We shall see
                            Last edited by Buddahfan; Wed Sep 8, 2010, 01:22 AM.
                            Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

                            Memories some so sweet, indeed

                            Larger Photo of the avatar



                            Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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                            • #29
                              @tim w.:

                              @bhuddafan: They simply should have paid him less. A player, who has averaged 17 minutes last year demands 25 Million. Guaranteed? Maybe during the next season i have to admit that i was wrong, but only if he has a breakout year. Just from what has happended until today, the raptors overpaid him heavily.

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                              • #30
                                jjiio wrote: View Post
                                @tim w.:

                                @bhuddafan: They simply should have paid him less. A player, who has averaged 17 minutes last year demands 25 Million. Guaranteed? Maybe during the next season i have to admit that i was wrong, but only if he has a breakout year. Just from what has happended until today, the raptors overpaid him heavily.
                                If ever Amir has been 5 millions overpaid, having traded Hedo for Barbosa and acquired Kleiza combine for a summer which deserves much more than D

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