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ESPN Insider: Chad Ford grades summer moves, Raptors get a...

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  • ESPN Insider: Chad Ford grades summer moves, Raptors get a...

    D+

    Key additions: Leandro Barbosa (trade), Linas Kleiza (FA), Amir Johnson (re-signed), Ed Davis (draft)
    Key subtractions:

  • #2
    Only about 6 more weeks and we will start to get the real grades for 10-11.

    I have a sense it will be a lot higher than a lot of the so called basketball pundits are now grading the Raptors at.
    Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

    Memories some so sweet, indeed

    Larger Photo of the avatar



    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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    • #3
      Right, D+... Worse than the Cavs? Right... Yeah, and this guy is getting paid for this -_- And why does he mention Turk in a bad way, we got rid of him, shouldn't it be a +?

      Comment


      • #4
        Chad Ford is a tool...we should get a B+ for being able to get rid of Turk alone...

        Comment


        • #5
          Arsenalist wrote: View Post
          D+
          First things first I have to say, I am a Colangelo fan or a BC apologist as some on this site may say - whatever, I can live with that label.

          Now that is out of the way you can decide to read the rest or not.

          Personally I think he is more a victim of circumstance than anything with his tenure in T.O. Think about what has happened:

          1) Garbo injury
          2) Ford injury
          3) Calderon injuries and regression
          4) trying to build around Bosh who is not a franchise player with
          a) Jermaine O'Neal
          b) Turkoglu
          5) having O'Neal get re-injured (again)
          6) having Turk be a lazy, whiny slob
          7) Bosh was not exactly truthful or open with his intentions (partly BC's fault, see below)
          8) Jordan pull out of the trade this summer with Charlotte

          To show I am not totally biased he has made some mistakes:
          1) signed Hedo
          2) gave bloated contract to Calderon
          3) hindsight 20/20 but after he offered Bosh a contract extension and he would not sign it before the trade deadline, he should have traded him (much like Denver now)

          The unfortunate thing is he is now in a position to mold a team around his vision without the pressure of having to keep or appease Bosh. He is clearing out contracts, creating cap space, acquiring young talented pieces, and has flexibility and options. If Colangelo can move Calderon's contract before camp starts, this summer is easily a B. One thing Chad Ford did not mention is PJ Carlesimo. He is a quality coach who takes no bullsh*t and tells it like it is. Don't forget after he was with San Antonio and before he was with Toronto he was the coach of Seattle/Oklahoma. He was an assistant coach on the '92 Dream Team as well - bottom line, he ain't no slouch.

          It may be tough to swallow for Raptors fans, but this year may be a write off. Next year will be anything but as there will be cap space, draft picks, TPE, and another year under the belts of the young core already in place.

          I hope Colangelo is given the opportunity to see this through now that the drama that has been Chris Bosh over the last 2-3 years is finally gone.

          Comment


          • #6
            JoePanini wrote: View Post
            Right, D+... Worse than the Cavs? Right... Yeah, and this guy is getting paid for this -_- And why does he mention Turk in a bad way, we got rid of him, shouldn't it be a +?
            If Turk plays the way he did the last few games of the world championships, and Barbosa falters, then it could be egg in the face.
            Turkoglu looks like he has turned the corner and will be in better shape this year.

            Comment


            • #7
              MangoKid wrote: View Post
              If Turk plays the way he did the last few games of the world championships, and Barbosa falters, then it could be egg in the face.
              Turkoglu looks like he has turned the corner and will be in better shape this year.
              If Turkoglu has a better year because he has a better attitude and is in better shape, that will speak more of Turkoglu than Colangelo. Turkoglu was given a huge contract - more money than most in the world can even fathom - and he whined and cried about his role all year while filling up on Pizza Pizza. You can, and I sort of do, fault Colangelo for giving him the contract however when you think about what he did with Orlando and what the Raptors needed any one of us would have done the same.

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              • #8
                MangoKid wrote: View Post
                If Turk plays the way he did the last few games of the world championships, and Barbosa falters, then it could be egg in the face.
                Turkoglu looks like he has turned the corner and will be in better shape this year.
                People make a big mistake when they compare Turk with Barbosa

                They do not play the same positions

                The proper comparisons for the 10-11 Raptors vs the 09-10 Raptors are

                10-11 vs 09-10
                -------------------
                Johnson vs Bosh - Johnson will not be as good
                Kleiza vs Turk - Kleiza will be better
                Barbosa vs A. Wright - Barbosa will be better
                Davis vs Johnson - unknown, could go either way
                Jack vs Jack - should be a slight improvement in 10-11
                Calderon vs Calderon - should be the same or an improvement in 10-11
                DeRozan vs DeRozan - will be a big improvement in 10-11
                Bargnani vs Bargnani - slight improvement in 10-11
                Andersen vs Rasho - will be an improvement in 10-11
                Reggie/Dorsey vs Reggie - will be an improvement in 10-11
                J. Wright vs POB - will be an improvement in 10-11
                Alabi vs PMB - probably not material unless Alabi surprises to the upside.

                So of all the comparisons between 10-11 and 09-10 I see only one that will be a downgrade Johnson vs Bosh. Davis vs Johnson could go either way.

                The rest of the roster should all be better in 10-11 vs 09-10 with some like DeRozan showing a major improvement.

                It seems to me that all those improvements will lead to a better Raptors team in 10-11 than in 09-10 if

                Odds are preliminary pending the completion of the pre-season
                ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                1. Johnson can play at least 30 + mpg ---- odds 30% - 70%
                2. DeRozan can make the jump in his game that I expect - 65% - 35%
                3. Davis can get up to speed and carry his own relatively quickly. 45% - 55%

                If none of those three things happen then the Raptors could very easily be worse in 10-11 then in 09-10

                The possibility is there that the Raptors could become better in 10-11 then in 09-10. It doesn't take an ESPN insider to figure that out.

                We shall see.
                Last edited by Buddahfan; Thu Sep 16, 2010, 07:07 AM.
                Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

                Memories some so sweet, indeed

                Larger Photo of the avatar



                Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

                Comment


                • #9
                  D+ is pretty accurate in terms of grades. We did lose 2 of our 3 best players and really only have Leandro Barbosa to show for it.
                  We're pretty thin. I don't know why everyone is so up in arms about it.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Buddahfan wrote: View Post
                    People make a big mistake when they compare Turk with Barbosa

                    They do not play the same positions

                    The proper comparisons for the 10-11 Raptors vs the 09-10 Raptors are

                    10-11 vs 09-10
                    -------------------
                    Johnson vs Bosh
                    Kleiza vs Turk
                    Barbosa vs Wright
                    Davis vs Johnson
                    Why can't they be compared? Turkoglu was more productive than Barbosa last year and all things considered, Turkoglu was out of shape all year and Barbosa dealt with injuries he sustained. If both are healthy and on top of their games, Turkoglu is a more valuable player. We had to deal Turkoglu though. He was never going to come into training camp in shape and all the other off the court issues, it would have been bad news.

                    And in terms of comparisons, the 09-10 team you listed is far and away superior than the 10-11 version.

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                    • #11
                      I'd give the Raptors a C.

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                      • #12
                        MangoKid wrote: View Post
                        Why can't they be compared? Turkoglu was more productive than Barbosa last year and all things considered, Turkoglu was out of shape all year and Barbosa dealt with injuries he sustained. If both are healthy and on top of their games, Turkoglu is a more valuable player. We had to deal Turkoglu though. He was never going to come into training camp in shape and all the other off the court issues, it would have been bad news.

                        And in terms of comparisons, the 09-10 team you listed is far and away superior than the 10-11 version
                        .
                        You be man loving Bosh big time. and I mean big time
                        Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

                        Memories some so sweet, indeed

                        Larger Photo of the avatar



                        Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          MangoKid wrote: View Post
                          If Turk plays the way he did the last few games of the world championships, and Barbosa falters, then it could be egg in the face.
                          Turkoglu looks like he has turned the corner and will be in better shape this year.
                          Not really, Turk didn't ft in our system. Even if he leads the Suns to the playoffs averaging 19 6 6 I won't feel like we could have had that. He didn't fit, he was sloppy, he had no drive. I hope he finds his old self in Phoenix, but now we have Barbosa who is an improvement on any SG we had last year.

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                          • #14
                            MangoKid wrote: View Post
                            D+ is pretty accurate in terms of grades. We did lose 2 of our 3 best players and really only have Leandro Barbosa to show for it.
                            We're pretty thin. I don't know why everyone is so up in arms about it.
                            Wait, we lost Bosh, who's the second best player? Turk? C'mon.

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                            • #15
                              MangoKid wrote: View Post
                              Why can't they be compared? Turkoglu was more productive than Barbosa last year and all things considered, Turkoglu was out of shape all year and Barbosa dealt with injuries he sustained. If both are healthy and on top of their games, Turkoglu is a more valuable player. We had to deal Turkoglu though. He was never going to come into training camp in shape and all the other off the court issues, it would have been bad news.

                              And in terms of comparisons, the 09-10 team you listed is far and away superior than the 10-11 version.
                              Turkoglu played badly, his contract lasts forever. Barbosa doesn't mind playing limited minutes, is quick and won't take shots away from Young Gunz. So for our team, I think the trade worked out for us, and maybe it will for the Suns to. But I'd rather have Barbosa than Turk.

                              And, no. We won 40 games last year, you really think this years team can't come close? I say 35 wins. Only 5 away... Apart from Bosh's departure we have improved pretty much every position.

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