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History review: 2006-07 Offseason Power Rankings

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  • #16
    Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I don't know about the minutes question and, no offense, have little desire to check it out. But off the top of my head:

    1) Rondo and Perkins the year the C's won the championship but they bought Rondo from Phoenix and traded all young assets and #5 in Jeff Green for Allen and Garnett to go along with Pierce (needless to say this is an exception to the rule)
    2) Courtney Lee with Orlando 2 years ago but look at who he started with
    3) Beasley in Miami but the Raps don't have a Wade to carry the entire team - and Bosh is not in the same league as Wade
    4) Jennings in Milwaukee
    5) Sam Cassell back in the '94
    6) Carmelo's rookie season

    Basically to answer your question - it is rare.

    However, the follow up comment is exactly what I'm talking about. The guys the Raptors have starting could start on almost any other lottery team. As a Raptor fan, this isn't good enough for me. Instead of a lineup like this:

    PG - Jack/Calderon/Banks
    SG - DD/Barbosa/Weems
    SF - Kleiza/Wright/Dupree
    PF - Johnson/Davis/Evans/Dorsey
    C - Bargs/Anderson/Alabi

    I would like to see a line up like this:

    PG - Kyle Irving/Jack
    SG - DD/Barbosa/Weems
    SF - Jeff Green/Kleiza/Wright
    PF - Bargs/Davis/Dorsey
    C - Marc Gasol/Johnson/Alabi

    Does that make sense? The guys we have are great bench and role players. The guys in italics (who I thought of off the top of my head) are the kind of players we need to really compete which we don't have.

    Hopefully a high draft pick, TPE, and cap space can combine to create a lineup with the talent we already have and the options available in the draft, free agency, and trade market.
    1. Rondo and Perkins were picked and not better players at the time because the Celtics were over the luxury level and the owners did not want to spend any more money then they thought they needed to., The thinking was the big three were so good that any two players will do to make five unless as the last two don't cost too much. So Rondo and Perkins just happened to be in the right place in the right time.

    2. Lee got the minutes because he had a skill that met an Orlando need in their offense. Lee can shoot three's In his rookie season he took over 200 of them and made over 40% of them. The Magic eventually got rid of him because they didn't think he was worth the money. So the Lee thing while it did happen it again was something that rarely happens in the league.

    3. Beasley, Jennings and Carmello. Yes on this. I forgot to add, sometimes really high draft picks can help a team become a playoff team in their first few season. like those three. Yes DeMar was taken before Jennings but Jennings was considered by far the best player in the country the year that he graduated from High School. He would have gone a lot higher in the draft than he did if he could have been selected the year before right out of high school but he was not eligible for the draft so he had to go to Europe since he did not want to play college ball. He didn't play very well in Europe spending a lot of time on the bench there. So it seems to me that his ranking was lowered a bit because of his rejecting the American NCAA system for a year and because he did not play very well while over in Europe. However, in my opinion he should have been ROY even with his low shooting percentage and I would have drafted him in the top 5.

    Cassell in 94 must have been with KG. KG has a way of allowing teams to round out their five man unit with cheap fillers at the time.

    After that in the second part you lost me entirely.
    Last edited by Buddahfan; Sat Sep 18, 2010, 07:44 PM.
    Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

    Memories some so sweet, indeed

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    • #17
      Courtney Lee was traded by Orlando to New Jersey as part of the Vince Carter deal it had nothing to do with his salary (which is rookie scale) or Orlando thinking that he wasn't worth the money. Please keep it as close to 100% as possible.

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      • #18
        Buddahfan wrote: View Post
        1. Rondo and Perkins were picked and not better players at the time because the Celtics were over the luxury level and the owners did not want to spend any more money then they thought they needed to., The thinking was the big three were so good that any two players will do to make five unless as the last two don't cost too much. So Rondo and Perkins just happened to be in the right place in the right time.

        2. Lee got the minutes because he had a skill that met an Orlando need in their offense. Lee can shoot three's In his rookie season he took over 200 of them and made over 40% of them. The Magic eventually got rid of him because they didn't think he was worth the money. So the Lee thing while it did happen it again was something that rarely happens in the league.

        3. Beasley, Jennings and Carmello. Yes on this. I forgot to add, sometimes really high draft picks can help a team become a playoff team in their first few season. like those three. Yes DeMar was taken before Jennings but Jennings was considered by far the best player in the country the year that he graduated from High School. He would have gone a lot higher in the draft than he did if he could have been selected the year before right out of high school but he was not eligible for the draft so he had to go to Europe since he did not want to play college ball. He didn't play very well in Europe spending a lot of time on the bench there. So it seems to me that his ranking was lowered a bit because of his rejecting the American NCAA system for a year and because he did not play very well while over in Europe. However, in my opinion he should have been ROY even with his low shooting percentage and I would have drafted him in the top 5.

        Cassell in 94 must have been with KG. KG has a way of allowing teams to round out their five man unit with cheap fillers at the time.

        After that in the second part you lost me entirely.
        I was just trying to think of rookies who made significant contributions to playoff teams.

        Sam Cassell was with the Rockets when they won their two championships when Jordan was retired for the first time. They had quite a team but Cassell did play a very significant role.

        Yeah, sorry about the second part. I'll try again.

        No doubt that Amir, Kleiza, Bargs, Jack, and DD could start on other lottery teams. In a nutshell I was attempting to compare the line up they have NOW to what they could have next season.

        In the possible line up for next season three of the starters of this year are now the bench - which would make an awesome bench and an awesome top 8 players for the Raps (9 including Davis, 10 with Barbosa, 11 with Weems).

        Basically many of the upper teams have guys coming off the bench that could start for the lottery teams. So the Raptors lineup, while currently comparable to bottom tier teams in the league, is currently not comparable to upper tier teams in the league because our starters most likely would not start on the upper tier teams.

        The hypothetical lineup I put in using the assets the Raps have over the next year (draft pick, TPE, salary cap) could send many of this year's starters to the bench. Assuming the team gels and has good chemistry (which is not a guarantee) that would be a deep team and one that could certainly contend for a top spot in the east.

        Any clearer? I hope so.

        And if still not clear - one last kick at the can:

        Take the current team,
        drop Evans, Banks, Anderson, and Calderon
        add Irving (or a much better PG than what we currently have), Jeff Green (or a much better SF than we currently have), and Marc Gasol (or a much better C than we currently have)
        have Jack, Kleiza, Johnson coming off the bench

        Assuming DD develops as expected this year, Bargs, Irving (if he lives up to the hype), Green, and Gasol could all start on upper tier teams in the NBA.

        Jack, Kleiza, and Johnson would not be starting on upper tier teams in the league unless they are playing with Kobe/Gasol/Artest or Pierce/Allen/Garnett or Wade/LeBron/Bosh.

        Ohhh, I think I might have got your point now - lol - hopefully mine came through somewhere in this mess.

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        • #19
          Matt52 wrote: View Post
          I was just trying to think of rookies who made significant contributions to playoff teams.

          Sam Cassell was with the Rockets when they won their two championships when Jordan was retired for the first time. They had quite a team but Cassell did play a very significant role.

          Yeah, sorry about the second part. I'll try again.

          No doubt that Amir, Kleiza, Bargs, Jack, and DD could start on other lottery teams. In a nutshell I was attempting to compare the line up they have NOW to what they could have next season.

          In the possible line up for next season three of the starters of this year are now the bench - which would make an awesome bench and an awesome top 8 players for the Raps (9 including Davis, 10 with Barbosa, 11 with Weems).

          Basically many of the upper teams have guys coming off the bench that could start for the lottery teams. So the Raptors lineup, while currently comparable to bottom tier teams in the league, is currently not comparable to upper tier teams in the league because our starters most likely would not start on the upper tier teams.

          The hypothetical lineup I put in using the assets the Raps have over the next year (draft pick, TPE, salary cap) could send many of this year's starters to the bench. Assuming the team gels and has good chemistry (which is not a guarantee) that would be a deep team and one that could certainly contend for a top spot in the east.

          Any clearer? I hope so.

          And if still not clear - one last kick at the can:

          Take the current team,
          drop Evans, Banks, Anderson, and Calderon
          add Irving (or a much better PG than what we currently have), Jeff Green (or a much better SF than we currently have), and Marc Gasol (or a much better C than we currently have)
          have Jack, Kleiza, Johnson coming off the bench

          Assuming DD develops as expected this year, Bargs, Irving (if he lives up to the hype), Green, and Gasol could all start on upper tier teams in the NBA.

          Jack, Kleiza, and Johnson would not be starting on upper tier teams in the league unless they are playing with Kobe/Gasol/Artest or Pierce/Allen/Garnett or Wade/LeBron/Bosh.

          Ohhh, I think I might have got your point now - lol - hopefully mine came through somewhere in this mess.
          To summarize my comments about the second section.

          I don't agree with with your assessment of the players.

          Before the end of 10-11 Kleiza and DeRozan will prove that they could start on a solid playoff team. Johnson will also if he can keep his fouls down and average 30 + mpg.
          Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

          Memories some so sweet, indeed

          Larger Photo of the avatar



          Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

          Comment


          • #20
            Buddahfan wrote: View Post
            To summarize my comments about the second section.

            I don't agree with with your assessment of the players.

            Before the end of 10-11 Kleiza and DeRozan will prove that they could start on a solid playoff team. Johnson will also if he can keep his fouls down and average 30 + mpg.
            C'mon Buddha, the guy wrote so much. He deserves a long answer! HAHA. Explain pleeaaasseeeeee, it's fun to read Learn new things ever day

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            • #21
              Buddahfan wrote: View Post
              To summarize my comments about the second section.

              I don't agree with with your assessment of the players.

              Before the end of 10-11 Kleiza and DeRozan will prove that they could start on a solid playoff team. Johnson will also if he can keep his fouls down and average 30 + mpg.
              They very well might prove that by the end of 10-11 but they haven't proved it yet and the now is what I'm talking about. Hopefully the younger guys flourish with minutes and the older younger guys flourish with more responsibility.

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              • #22
                Matt52 wrote: View Post
                They very well might prove that by the end of 10-11 but they haven't proved it yet and the now is what I'm talking about. Hopefully the younger guys flourish with minutes and the older younger guys flourish with more responsibility.
                May the Karma gods help make it so
                Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

                Memories some so sweet, indeed

                Larger Photo of the avatar



                Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

                Comment

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