Noah Deal Shows Value of Amir Signing

[Apollo]

I'd take Noah at 11Mil over Amir at 5 any day. Noah is not just about stats. His hussle, his energy, his rebounding and defense, he plays it all out every night, and his stats surely don't do him justice. Noah is second best center in the league behind Dwight IMO.

I second that. You can't just break it down to stats. Noah brings leadership, toughness and intensity on a level that Amir doesn't match. Not even close.

[Buddahfan]

Cuban is not a stats guy.

He a people person and money maker.

A lot of these people, and I mean that positively, usually do not think very highly of bean counters, even the advanced ones

I have read enough about the accuracy and usefulness of Advanced Stats; i.e. Metrics in both baseball and basketball to know that the science of Sports Metrics in these two sports is accepted by the majority of owners and management people in these respective sports on the professional level.

Basketball is further behind the baseball is in this. Whereas every Major League Baseball team uses what is called Sabermetrics" by the baseball people only a majority of professional basketball teams, including the Raptors use it at this time.

Sabermetics is very widely accepted among serious baseball fans as a valid aid in determining the worth of and projected value of players. Very few basketball fans at this point accept the use of Advanced Stats as a valid worth determiner. It will all change over time as the fan base becomes for informed of and knowledgeable in the use of the numbers.

if you go to the bottom of the Wiki article on Sabermetrics you will see that the article references

* Win Shares, by Bill James

Sabermetrics



Win Shares by Bill James

James originally created the concept of Win Shares for baseball. It has since been modified and adopted for basketball.

A NBA.com blogger provides a nice explanation of what a WS actually is. Here is an excerpt:

"In other words, a Win Share is kind of like baseball's VORP stat...it relies on the assumption that efficiency is the key to wins, looks at a player's offensive efficiency compared to the league average, a player's defensive efficiency compared to the league average, corrects for minutes played, then adds up the corresponding Offensive and Defensive Win Shares to get one number that estimates how many wins that player was worth."

http://blog.mlive.com/flintjournal/i...statspeak.html

[SirChillyMost]

As much as I like Amir...pause....I think that Noah is the far better player and has proven that so far on the court as being the more consistent player. I still remember Noah locking up Bosh with the game on the line not to mention that he plays all out every game. I used to think that Noah would get pushed around at center in the NBA but he more than holds his own even against Big Shaq.

[Hotshot]

Lets compare and keep in mind That Amir is 2 years younger and his contract is 1/2 yes HALF the cost of Noah's Approx 5.5 mill per

Amir is also half the player Noah is.

[Jaworski]

one season.

one season friends. his new contract is based on one season of double-double
isn't it more a contract based on potential... just like my man Amir?

can he regularly go to Timmy's and order up a double-double for the next 5 years?
we shall see. This also means they are investing over 24 mil per year on just their starting front court

[Arsenalist]

Don't really have an issue with Amir's contract. Amir is at least half a good a player as Noah is so his contract is reasonable when compared to Noah's.

[Buddahfan]

Don't really have an issue with Amir's contract. Amir is at least half a good a player as Noah is so his contract is reasonable when compared to Noah's.

+1

Amir's offensive game is more rounded and polished than Noah's though Amir still needs to improve his offense with an expanded list of high efficiency shots. It would be nice for him to develop a spot-up jump shot, but I would be happy if this season he added a reliable jump hook and a reliable post up jump shot.

Noah is a better rebounder and a better defender.

Noah is definitely not twice as good as Amir regarding what they bring on the floor. However, Noah is a lot bigger revenue generator for the Bulls franchise than Amir is for the Raptors franchise so it seems to me that that has to be factored in in terms of total value to their respective franchises.

[Juan]

Cuban is not a stats guy.

He a people person and money maker.

A lot of these people, and I mean that positively, usually do not think very highly of bean counters, even the advanced ones

Basketball is further behind the baseball is in this. Whereas every Major League Baseball team uses what is called Sabermetrics" by the baseball people only a majority of professional basketball teams, including the Raptors use it at this time.

I was being a bit cheeky, but I agree with what I view as the key point that stats without any context are just numbers. I know a number of teams use them in conjunction with many, many other means of evaluation. You may have seen the Michael Lewis article in the NY Times magazine last year that spent some time with Daryl Morey and discussed how they would have Battier cover Bryant - where to deny him the ball and where to let him have it based on Bryan'ts shooting percentage from various spots on the floor. That, I think, is a very wise application of relevant and meaningful information.

I also think the nature of baseball lends itself more to pure statistical evaluation than basketball as it involves more isloated situations. Kind of like free throw percentages tell you whether you're a good free throw shooter.

[imagoodfella]

I would like to comment on the Amir Fouling thing...THere is no way, he is going to put up as much fouls as last year. First of all he is going to be more tactical and will make improvments, but if you think Colangelo isn't going to be sending video tape and lobbying the refs to protect his starter you're mistaken. I'm high on Amir and would take his salary at 50% any day over Noah...

[Apollo]

one season.

one season friends. his new contract is based on one season of double-double
isn't it more a contract based on potential... just like my man Amir?

can he regularly go to Timmy's and order up a double-double for the next 5 years?
we shall see. This also means they are investing over 24 mil per year on just their starting front court

I difference is Noah got paid for what he showed he can do. Johnson got paid for what the Raptors hope he can do.

[charlz]

C'mon, Noah is AT LEAST double the player Amir is. Noah can defend extremely well, can rebound extremely well, can block shots extremely well, is pretty quick for a 7 footer, plays his heart out every game. Has great experience (Gators + Bulls), has actually played an entire basketball game.
If we could trade our first round pick, Miami's first round pick, Amir and Reggie for Noah would you do it?

no way in hell!

Give amir 2 more years to catch up to Noah Physically and you will see how under paid he is.

[Macc]

C'mon, Noah is AT LEAST double the player Amir is. Noah can defend extremely well, can rebound extremely well, can block shots extremely well, is pretty quick for a 7 footer, plays his heart out every game. Has great experience (Gators + Bulls), has actually played an entire basketball game.
If we could trade our first round pick, Miami's first round pick, Amir and Reggie for Noah would you do it?

lol no. Not unless that Raptors magically make the palyoffs.

[Edgar]

Noah is a great guy to have on your team but he's Brad Miller in his prime minus the attitude and jumpshot. If you can't see Noah as atleast moderately over-hyped, you're blind. He's a great glue guy who works harder than anyone else. Thats it. If you had asked me a month ago what he'd get signed for I would have guessed 9/per.

[minks77]

Although Noah is overhyped, he's a baller, straight up. Take your half baked metrics and all your number crunching and put them to the side. Now go watch and play basketball. Like Apollo said: Noah is getting paid for what he does. Amir is all potential. Saying Amir has a polished or even a well rounded offense compared to Noah is meaningless as neither has much to offer offensively. What Noah does offer is a tenacious, intelligent, talented defensive presence. It's not to say he has more heart or hustle than Amir, who I'm a big fan of, but Noah is a guy who'll D up the CB4's of the league with real success and anchor your team deep into the playoffs. Amir just isn't as good. Watch the games it's easy to see.

[Maleko]

I agree with jaworski. One season. 11mil is foolish. I love the people on here saying that amir is overpaid and then Noah is twice the player and therefore worth it. By the many arguments on here Noah should get six mil. Just gotta laugh. Just plain and simple not worth it. But hey... Not my money.