Is Jay A Pack Leader?

[SirChillyMost]

I watch alot of Dog Whisperer w/ Cesar Milan and he is always talking about being a pack leader and not rewarding bad behaviors with affection and/or treats.

Jay seems to do the exact opposite by rewarding bad behaviors (no rebounding, no boxing out, late d rotations, etc) with playing time (treats). Instead of reinforcing good behaviours (boxing out, d'n up, rebounding, etc) with playing time.

Example: Jose defense has been really bad this preseason yet Banks can lock pgs down but Jose gets the reward while Banks gets benched despite Jay's training camp rheteric of defense. It sends the wrong messages to the rest of the pack (roster).

So I ask the RR family is Jay a good Pack Leader?

[A.Kov]

I agree with you on this one, Jay is not a good pack leader, as some players seem to be able to get away with anything and still get consistent PT (Calderon, as you mentioned, and Bargnani never play defense and yet they are never penalized for this...so really what incentive is there for them to change)

While Sam Mitchell had his own flaws, I really think this was one thing that Mitchell was good at. If you didn't play hard with Sam, you didn't play and that is one thing that I respect. (Although with every coach, there is also the front office pressure to play certain players even though the coach may not believe they deserve that much PT, e.g. Bargnani)

[Ryan_1523]

I think we're talking about humans and not dogs here, I find this demeaning.

[Mack North]

I went with "Give him more time to learn". Only because I still have hope...

[SirChillyMost]

I think we're talking about humans and not dogs here, I find this demeaning.

Save that facetious drama for the Dalai Lama.

Jenny Buss & Phil Jackson were on one episode that I watched and Phil agreed w/ Cesar's methods in relation to humans dominating the dogs and that's what he teaches his team to- establish dominance and take responsibility for it.

[SirChillyMost]

I went with "Give him more time to learn". Only because I still have hope...

He took over from Sam 17 games into the 2008-09 season..........

[Ryan_1523]

Save that facetious drama for the Dalai Lama.

Jenny Buss & Phil Jackson were on one episode that I watched and Phil agreed w/ Cesar's methods in relation to humans dominating the dogs and that's what he teaches his team to- establish dominance and take responsibility for it.

Well, I don't think it's a serious issue. I find the fact that you're taking this dog whisperer show seriously frankly amusing, to be honest.

I like Marcus Bank's play, but if we're paying Calderon 10m a year, then he deserves the chance to get better and showcase what he has for possible trades. Banks would be a good back up ifff we didn't have two much better options, banks isn't going to put up many points, his court vision isn't anything but average, but he certainly does have good defense. Defense isn't everything when you're a pg, you need more than that.

Sometimes you just have to believe in guys, what's benching Bargnani going to do besides make us lose and make Bargnani not want to play for us, I get you want Bargnani out of Toronto.. Why make this like the whole VC thing over again and leave us with nothing for a guy that can put up at least 20 points a game? He's never going to be a hard-nosed player, granted. He can give us more than that though. Everyone knows he can shoot, it looks like he's getting better at rebounding, he's been under the net a lot more in recent games. Defense needs some improvement, and no doubt they're working on that in practice.

Jay is stressing defense, but we also need guys on the court who are going to give us offense, so sometimes you have to bend those rules a bit for the better of the team. You have no idea how he's working with these guys off the court, there's no doubt they're being punished for their lack of defense, and it's one of the main things these guys are working on during the pre-season.

[SirChillyMost]

Well, I don't think it's a serious issue. I find the fact that you're taking this dog whisperer show seriously frankly amusing, to be honest.

I like Marcus Bank's play, but if we're paying Calderon 10m a year, then he deserves the chance to get better and showcase what he has for possible trades. Banks would be a good back up ifff we didn't have two much better options, banks isn't going to put up many points, his court vision isn't anything but average, but he certainly does have good defense. Defense isn't everything when you're a pg, you need more than that.

Sometimes you just have to believe in guys, what's benching Bargnani going to do besides make us lose and make Bargnani not want to play for us, I get you want Bargnani out of Toronto.. Why make this like the whole VC thing over again and leave us with nothing for a guy that can put up at least 20 points a game? He's never going to be a hard-nosed player, granted. He can give us more than that though. Everyone knows he can shoot, it looks like he's getting better at rebounding, he's been under the net a lot more in recent games. Defense needs some improvement, and no doubt they're working on that in practice.

Jay is stressing defense, but we also need guys on the court who are going to give us offense, so sometimes you have to bend those rules a bit for the better of the team. You have no idea how he's working with these guys off the court, there's no doubt they're being punished for their lack of defense, and it's one of the main things these guys are working on during the pre-season.

Be amused then....like I said before Phil Jackson agreed with & uses Cesar's methods of instilling leadership, dominance and taking responsibility for it with the LA Lakers (heard of them before?) but who is Phil compared to you in relation to the NBA????

Playing contracts over talent is a perennial losing mentality as coaches should play the players that help you win no matter their contracts that's on the GM unless the GM is telling the coach who to play like with BC & Jay.....smh

Believe in Bargnani? After watching him do the same exact shit for 4 years???lol Bench Bargnani maybe he'll get the message to be a big man and rebound, get back on defense, hustle, box out and so forth but no- BC, Gherardini & Jay are coddling those negative behaviors by reinforcing them with a guaranteed 2010-11 starting position AND YOU WANT ME TO BELIEVE IN THAT???? Bargnani has never averaged 20ppg. It's his 5th year in the NBA- recognize.........or not.

Jay stressed defense last preseason- fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. If Jay was serious about defense Banks would get time over Jose- point blank. Actions speaks louder than words....smh Bargnani is still half assing his way on defense this whole preseason which negates his offense which has been inconsistent just like his career. Am I supposed to believe that once the regular season starts Bargnani will step it up accordingly???

The best Raptor units so far this preseason have been sans Bargnani- point blank.

[Pizzaman]

Be amused then....like I said before Phil Jackson agreed with & uses Cesar's methods of instilling leadership, dominance and taking responsibility for it with the LA Lakers (heard of them before?) but who is Phil compared to you in relation to the NBA????

Playing contracts over talent is a perennial losing mentality as coaches should play the players that help you win no matter their contracts that's on the GM unless the GM is telling the coach who to play like with BC & Jay.....smh

Believe in Bargnani? After watching him do the same exact shit for 4 years???lol Bench Bargnani maybe he'll get the message to be a big man and rebound, get back on defense, hustle, box out and so forth but no- BC, Gherardini & Jay are coddling those negative behaviors by reinforcing them with a guaranteed 2010-11 starting position AND YOU WANT ME TO BELIEVE IN THAT???? Bargnani has never averaged 20ppg. It's his 5th year in the NBA- recognize.........or not.

Jay stressed defense last preseason- fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. If Jay was serious about defense Banks would get time over Jose- point blank. Actions speaks louder than words....smh Bargnani is still half assing his way on defense this whole preseason which negates his offense which has been inconsistent just like his career. Am I supposed to believe that once the regular season starts Bargnani will step it up accordingly???

The best Raptor units so far this preseason have been sans Bargnani- point blank.

Some things never change: You are still not a real FAN, and you always always have pretty much nothing else to do but trash Bargnani, and sometimes you use Jose as a metaphor to say what you want to say about Bargnani.
You never ever trash the so called Young Gunz!
If you want to trash players for not being part of the pack, or for being rewarded when they deserve to get punished the list is long and you would be right to name almost every Raptor player, however that is not your main purpose here, which as always is to slam the one or two players you despise, and the GM you hate.
Firstly the GM you hate is about to get a contract extension, and Bargs is not going anywhere so either you love being a complainer and will continue to do so for a long long time or you will leave and support another team full of your type of players and managers.
On the reward/ penalty system you fail to mention the others as usual:
DeRozan: great young talent with potential but forces way too many shots, hardly ever passes to a better option, plays weak defense and does not by his play deserve to start or play significant minutes.
Weems: ditto what I just said about DeRozan
Jack: great energy, decent defense, shoots way too much, and not a great passer probably because he does'nt pass much. Also has many many tmes according to your system he should be benched for hogging, forcing, sulking, etc.
Evans: decent energy hustle guy, decent rebounder, weak defense, should almost never ever look for his own shot whic he does far too often and because of that gets too much playing time.
Amir: great hustle energy player, decent defender should play more.
Barbosa: should definitely play more than both DeRozan and Weems, as should Kleiza the guy you referred to as another soft Euro.
Stick to dogs as you seem to be a real fan of them.

[peanutplaza]

If you compare our starting five with every other team in the league, Bargnani in my opinon is most often the player where we have a slight advantage in the match up.
I just think we have a really deep roster of good players but not those 1-3 elite starters that give a consistent edge, so if we trade bargnani for another average-good player with better Defence how much better does it make us?

plus his salary is really not that bad 8 million this season going 1 million per season til 12 million in 2014. (jose make 9 million, barbossa 7 million and amir's 34 million for 5 years (roughly 6.8 per year)

[SirChillyMost]

Some things never change: You are still not a real FAN, and you always always have pretty much nothing else to do but trash Bargnani, and sometimes you use Jose as a metaphor to say what you want to say about Bargnani.
You never ever trash the so called Young Gunz!
If you want to trash players for not being part of the pack, or for being rewarded when they deserve to get punished the list is long and you would be right to name almost every Raptor player, however that is not your main purpose here, which as always is to slam the one or two players you despise, and the GM you hate.
Firstly the GM you hate is about to get a contract extension, and Bargs is not going anywhere so either you love being a complainer and will continue to do so for a long long time or you will leave and support another team full of your type of players and managers.
On the reward/ penalty system you fail to mention the others as usual:
DeRozan: great young talent with potential but forces way too many shots, hardly ever passes to a better option, plays weak defense and does not by his play deserve to start or play significant minutes.
Weems: ditto what I just said about DeRozan
Jack: great energy, decent defense, shoots way too much, and not a great passer probably because he does'nt pass much. Also has many many tmes according to your system he should be benched for hogging, forcing, sulking, etc.
Evans: decent energy hustle guy, decent rebounder, weak defense, should almost never ever look for his own shot whic he does far too often and because of that gets too much playing time.
Amir: great hustle energy player, decent defender should play more.
Barbosa: should definitely play more than both DeRozan and Weems, as should Kleiza the guy you referred to as another soft Euro.
Stick to dogs as you seem to be a real fan of them.

If you don't like my posts then come up with an intelligent rebuttal because everything I say about Bargnani, Jose is mostly factual not just my opinion. You're right I'm not a fan aka fanatic. I'm a critical thinking follower of the Raptor's who doesn't drink BC's kool aid and mistake his piss for rainwater...

Fyi- I have said that DD needs to improve his dribbling, jumper & defense. That Big A needs to limit his fouls (court awareness), work on his jumper, post game. Jack needs to work on his leadership abilities, decision making, jumper. That Weems needs to work on his J, dribbling. As well I have never referred to Kleiza as a being a soft Euro in this forum- if I did show me where I posted that then, buddy-o. Also, I'm not infatuated with his game (I see him as more of a stretch pf not a sf) but recognize that he can score in the NBA but can he be consistent over 82 games while guarding athletic NBA starting SF's are my biggests questions about him.

Plus everyone who knows Kleiza's game knows he's a hot head on the court not soft like Bargnani aka don't squeeze the Charmine.lol At least keep it 100% and stop making up sh*t to come off as being correct....smh You're just like BC lying, deceiving, misleading...lol

Evans looks for his own shot because Jay aka MistaDoblina lets him post up even moreso than Bargnani so far in the preseason.....smh Who in their right mind let's Evans repeatedly post up and call for the ball? I have followed Evans ever since he was a Sonic in Seattle and his game is all hustle very little skill now he's just a bit older nowadays but his game remains the very same game...... Bargnani is sooooo soft that Jay has to hide it by starting 2 tough guys Evans & Kleiza in order to try and conceal that softness....smh

The major difference between Bargnani & the YG'z/Evans/Barbosa from my perspective is that the YG'z/Evans/Barbosa hustle hard while Bargnani hardly hustles on the basketball court- fact. I can't recall ever having seen Bargnani get down on the floor for a loose ball or dive into the crowd to save a loose ball nor box out and secure a rebound in traffic or knock down a defender trying to score a dunk/layup........and on and on...........if you have please remind me......

BC hasn't signed that extension as of yet- has he? When that time comes it comes, or not.

I have forgotten more about basketball than you know, friend.....who let the dawgs out???

[Pizzaman]

If you don't like my posts then come up with an intelligent rebuttal because everything I say about Bargnani, Jose is mostly factual not just my opinion. You're right I'm not a fan aka fanatic. I'm a critical thinking follower of the Raptor's who doesn't drink BC's kool aid and mistake his piss for rainwater...

Fyi- I have said that DD needs to improve his dribbling, jumper & defense. That Big A needs to limit his fouls (court awareness), work on his jumper, post game. Jack needs to work on his leadership abilities, decision making, jumper. That Weems needs to work on his J, dribbling. As well I have never referred to Kleiza as a being a soft Euro in this forum- if I did show me where I posted that then, buddy-o. Also, I'm not infatuated with his game (I see him as more of a stretch pf not a sf) but recognize that he can score in the NBA but can he be consistent over 82 games while guarding athletic NBA starting SF's are my biggests questions about him.

Plus everyone who knows Kleiza's game knows he's a hot head on the court not soft like Bargnani aka don't squeeze the Charmine.lol At least keep it 100% and stop making up sh*t to come off as being correct....smh You're just like BC lying, deceiving, misleading...lol

Evans looks for his own shot because Jay aka MistaDoblina lets him post up even moreso than Bargnani so far in the preseason.....smh Who in their right mind let's Evans repeatedly post up and call for the ball? I have followed Evans ever since he was a Sonic in Seattle and his game is all hustle very little skill now he's just a bit older nowadays but his game remains the very same game...... Bargnani is sooooo soft that Jay has to hide it by starting 2 tough guys Evans & Kleiza in order to try and conceal that softness....smh

The major difference between Bargnani & the YG'z/Evans/Barbosa from my perspective is that the YG'z/Evans/Barbosa hustle hard while Bargnani hardly hustles on the basketball court- fact. I can't recall ever having seen Bargnani get down on the floor for a loose ball or dive into the crowd to save a loose ball nor box out and secure a rebound in traffic or knock down a defender trying to score a dunk/layup........and on and on...........if you have please remind me......

BC hasn't signed that extension as of yet- has he? When that time comes it comes, or not.

I have forgotten more about basketball than you know, friend.....who let the dawgs out???

You're still an idiot!! 250 lbs 7 footers do not as a habit throw themselves on the floor to dive for loose balls; it would be a pretty hard crash and could severely injure someone making alot of money. Also Bargs boxes out his man IMO very well, and yesterday Bargs took two fouls grabbing a shooter that was going to make an easy layup. If you're waiting for Bargnani to knock down or hit or take a cheap shot at a player that is going in for a layup and has done nothing else but play the game then you should forget it; Bargs is not a goon and only goons take a player down hard for nothing, but then again you like goons.
Triano did not start Evans and Kleiza because Bargs is soft, but rather to showcase Evans for a trade and because Amir gets in early foul trouble; Evans is a horrible player. Kleiza starts because he is far superior to the other options on the team at SF, namely Weems and sometimes DeRozan. Kleiza will also prove you wrong because he's for real.
As for B.C. he managed to get someone to do the impossible again and take useless Turdolou and his contract and give up Barbosa who is among the top five talents on this team and makes less money. Also B.C. signed Turd when he was worth the coin and just finished playing his ass off in a contract year, not knowing he would then take the money and turn into a lazy dick.
He also signed Kleiza for a great contract and Kleiza will play at a level 50 to 100% bette than the money he's getting.
Face it you are a biased opinionated non fan shit disturber with no real love of this game, and a hard on for a team that traded your pansy ass, girly headed ball hog RuPaul.

[grindhouse]

I agree that after the performance banks put on in the forth quarter of the boston game and the poor defensive play of calderon banks needs to see more playing time.

[SirChillyMost]

You're still an idiot!! 250 lbs 7 footers do not as a habit throw themselves on the floor to dive for loose balls; it would be a pretty hard crash and could severely injure someone making alot of money. Also Bargs boxes out his man IMO very well, and yesterday Bargs took two fouls grabbing a shooter that was going to make an easy layup. If you're waiting for Bargnani to knock down or hit or take a cheap shot at a player that is going in for a layup and has done nothing else but play the game then you should forget it; Bargs is not a goon and only goons take a player down hard for nothing, but then again you like goons.
Triano did not start Evans and Kleiza because Bargs is soft, but rather to showcase Evans for a trade and because Amir gets in early foul trouble; Evans is a horrible player. Kleiza starts because he is far superior to the other options on the team at SF, namely Weems and sometimes DeRozan. Kleiza will also prove you wrong because he's for real.
As for B.C. he managed to get someone to do the impossible again and take useless Turdolou and his contract and give up Barbosa who is among the top five talents on this team and makes less money. Also B.C. signed Turd when he was worth the coin and just finished playing his ass off in a contract year, not knowing he would then take the money and turn into a lazy dick.
He also signed Kleiza for a great contract and Kleiza will play at a level 50 to 100% bette than the money he's getting.
Face it you are a biased opinionated non fan shit disturber with no real love of this game, and a hard on for a team that traded your pansy ass, girly headed ball hog RuPaul.

Name calling is a sign of desperation when all logical rebuttals have been exhausted, my friend- believe it or not...

As well I see big men all across the League diving, getting on the floor for loose balls ie Garnett, Shaq, Bosh, Duncan, Camby, Kaman and so forth. Ex Raptor's Oakley, Davis used to hit the floor all the time.

I should have pre fixed my statement to exclude yesterday's Phoenix game as Barg's did that only after Jay got on the team in the media/practice for letting layup lines form during games w/o any fouls, wrap ups. We'll see how long that lasts.

Did I ever say that I like goons? No I didn't. Another make believe assumption in order to make one come off as being correct......smh

Sherman Hamilton said yesterday during the 4th Q of the TO/Phx game that this line up:

Bargnani
Evans
Kleiza
DeRozan
Calderon

was most likely the line up Jay will start the regular season with barring injuries and the like. I would guess that Jay told Sherman that tid bit himself if Sherm repeated on air but what do I know...

We'll see how consistent Kleiza will be over time. The better he plays the better for the Rap's. I just don't see him as a starting NBA SF.

BC moved Turk in part because Turk's ex agent Lon Babby took over in Phoenix as the new President of Basketball Operations in July 2010 and gave Turk an easy out. BC got Barbosa in return which is a major positive to say the very least. I'm glad that BC got Barbosa for Turk- point blank. I would start Barbosa especially with Evans starting as the Rap's need scoring if Evans starts (until Davis returns to start or back up Amir). Both Regie and Jose are most likely being showcased but at what cost to the players behind them that deserve a chance to play in the rotation ie Banks over Jose/Amir starting over Evans?

Turk was worth the money then and not now?lol I didn't think that he was worth the money then (because he needs to be a point forward but Jose dominats the ball in TO. Turk played better w/ Jack & Banks but still played below his contract expectations for most of the season) but he had the 2009 NBA Finals hype to ride on into free agency and cashed in on it big time in TO.

Your posted hate for Bosh is more self revealing than not....take a chill pill Will......and slowly breathe:

[SirChillyMost]

I agree that after the performance banks put on in the forth quarter of the boston game and the poor defensive play of calderon banks needs to see more playing time.

Banks should get some more time over Jose but Jay is only paying lip service to defense (actions speaks louder than words) as they (BC,Jay) are once again playing contracts over talent.....smh

If Jay was really serious about defense he would have started the unit (AJ over Alabi) that helped to close the game against Boston with stiffling pressure defnse that took Boston out of what they were trying to run offensively in the whole 4th Q against Phoenix:

Dorsey
Johnson
Wright
Weems
Banks

message sent..........