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Interesting Quotes From Sonny Weems (Bargnani Team Chemistry Related Past & Present)

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  • #16
    I've played ball on a couple of different levels, including high school, but that was a long, long time ago. And my point was that you seemed to be blaming Bargnani for being on his "high horse". That doesn't sound like you were spreading the blame, but pointing fingers at him exclusively.
    Then you should know that those players who have been on the team the longest usually welcome the new guys onto the team not the other way around.....smh

    So because Colangelo is not trying to trade Bargnani's he's the franchise player? Is DeRozan a role player? If not, then why isn't he the franchise player? I wouldn't say the Raptors HAVE a franchise player at this point, and I think most people would tend to agree.
    Did I say that because BC isn't trying to trade Bargnani he's the Franchise player? No, I didn't....smh

    Yes, currently, I would consider DeMar to be a role player. As a matter of fact I don't think that he should even be starting I would go with Barbosa as the starting sg & Jack as the starting pg & use DeMar as the 6th man.

    I think that Toronto does have a Franchise player that BC drafted #1 overall back in 2006 as a 5 year self proclaimed project and I believe that most people would tend to agree.

    As O.C. would say- Time's up:


    I was trying to make a point that it doesn't matter where a player is drafted. You've really got to get over where he was drafted. It was a poor draft year and once the draft is done, it doesn't matter where the player was drafted. Only how he performs.
    Save that untenable drama for the Dalai Lama. If you know anything about the NBA then you will recognize the organizational value of the #1 overall draft pick in any draft- it matters. That's why some NBA teams tank in order to get a shot at the Lottery (#1 draft pick) & a Franchise player. And Andrea has underperformed as a former number 1 overall NBA draft pick in my mind and many others no matter if it was considered to be a weak draft- that's what scouting is for ie BRoy........smh

    Yes, Colangelo did say that Bargnani was a 5 year project. And you know what, he's about where I expected him to be at this point. I think you're mistaking me for someone who actually thinks highly of Bargnani's game. I don't.
    I expected him to be beyond where he's currently at by year 5. Bargnani is very skilled especially offensively but not very willed to play hard all the time if he only played with Evans effort.......smh

    I never said that YOU said he was soulless (you have said he was heartless), but I was speaking generally. I had just read a comment from someone who said that exact thing.
    When you quote my post I take it as you're talking to me....

    I said he plays with no heart- at least quote me correctly....smh

    And is it truthful that Bargnani got off his high horse to sit with the guys in the back of the bus? Was Bargnani on his high horse? A lot of what you state is actually conjecture, not truth. You really need to learn to tell the difference. Maybe I'll try and find a music video for you to watch to make it easier for you.
    That is my opinion- nothing more, nothing less......smh

    Also, maybe you could tell me what I have made up in the past. I can think of any instances.
    We had a conversation in another thread the other day ( I can't recall which thread off the top) and you made up some sh*t to make yourself come off as being right using another facetious rationalization just like today....smh I would go look for it but it's not that serious- feel free though...lol Btw- Tim W, you, my friend, are full of pure unadulterated facetious balderdash...........lol
    Last edited by SirChillyMost; Wed Oct 20, 2010, 02:55 AM.

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    • #17
      I haven't read the replies in this thread. However, from the quotes given, I have a sneaking suspicion someone higher up asked (or maybe even told) Bargnani that he needs to get more "involved" with the rest of the team. This makes sense on a number of levels, the most being that if Bargs is supposed to be "The Man" he's supposed to be able to lead all members of the team and just "The Europeans".

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      • #18
        SirChillyMost wrote: View Post
        Then you should know that those players who have been on the team the longest usually welcome the new guys onto the team not the other way around.....smh

        Did I say that because BC isn't trying to trade Bargnani he's the Franchise player? No, I didn't....smh

        Yes, currently, I would consider DeMar to be a role player. As a matter of fact I don't think that he should even be starting I would go with Barbosa as the starting sg & Jack as the starting pg & use DeMar as the 6th man.

        I think that Toronto does have a Franchise player that BC drafted #1 overall back in 2006 as a 5 year self proclaimed project and I believe that most people would tend to agree.

        As O.C. would say- Time's up:


        Save that untenable drama for the Dalai Lama. If you know anything about the NBA then you will recognize the organizational value of the #1 overall draft pick in any draft- it matters. That's why some NBA teams tank in order to get a shot at the Lottery (#1 draft pick) & a Franchise player. And Andrea has underperformed as a former number 1 overall NBA draft pick in my mind and many others no matter if it was considered to be a weak draft- that's what scouting is for ie BRoy........smh

        I expected him to be beyond where he's currently at by year 5. Bargnani is very skilled especially offensively but not very willed to play hard all the time if he only played with Evans effort.......smh

        When you quote my post I take it as you're talking to me....

        I said he plays with no heart- at least quote me correctly....smh

        That is my opinion- nothing more, nothing less......smh


        We had a conversation in another thread the other day ( I can't recall which thread off the top) and you made up some sh*t to make yourself come off as being right using another facetious rationalization just like today....smh I would go look for it but it's not that serious- feel free though...lol Btw- Tim W, you, my friend, are full of pure unadulterated facetious balderdash...........lol

        Meh, I can't believe you are stilling posting here. Seriously, the Grizzlies are in Memphis now, I'm sure they have a "Grizzlies Republic" you can go spread your hate mongering on.

        Tim W you da man, I never thought I would say that.

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        • #19
          Tim W on the bargs side of an argument!?

          interesting.

          Comment


          • #20
            Marz wrote: View Post
            I haven't read the replies in this thread. However, from the quotes given, I have a sneaking suspicion someone higher up asked (or maybe even told) Bargnani that he needs to get more "involved" with the rest of the team. This makes sense on a number of levels, the most being that if Bargs is supposed to be "The Man" he's supposed to be able to lead all members of the team and just "The Europeans".
            I was thinking the exact same thing especially considering that Bargnani apparently didn't get off of his high horse last season in order to interact with the common Raptor folks a sper Weems they didn't a chance to get to know Bargnani last season.

            It seems as if the locker room divide last season was due in part to Jay's lack of leadership abilities as he allowed it to fester all season long before trying to get all authoritative with Turk....smh The no discipline carried over onto the court & more than likely helped to cost the Rap's a playoff spot last season.

            BC (The Joker), Gherardini (Mr Magoo) & Jay (Mista Doblina) aka The 3 Stooges aka 3 Blind Mice aka Dumb, Dumber & Dumbest need to stop the Euro/International roster/team experiment and field a real NBA team not a feel real NBA team ASAP or hit the road....smh

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            • #21
              SirChillyMost wrote: View Post
              Save that untenable drama for the Dalai Lama. If you know anything about the NBA then you will recognize the organizational value of the #1 overall draft pick in any draft- it matters. That's why some NBA teams tank in order to get a shot at the Lottery (#1 draft pick) & a Franchise player. And Andrea has underperformed as a former number 1 overall NBA draft pick in my mind and many others no matter if it was considered to be a weak draft- that's what scouting is for ie BRoy........smh
              All I know is all the talk in 2006 was around Bargnani, Morrison, Aldridge and Tyrus Thomas when it came to the top three. There wasn't a consensus #1 but there was a consensus top four, even if there wasn't a consensus order to said top four. Out of those four Colangelo got the second best player. Rumors at the time were that he narrowed it down to Bargnani and Aldridge and ultimately chose Bargnani. So out of the four names dominately being tossed around for the top three picks, Colangelo had targeted the best two. You can sit here and criticize the hell out of him all you want but you best do it with the facts in hand. Bargnani is a hell of a lot better than Adam Morrison, somewhat better than Tyrus Thomas and not too far behind LaMarcus Aldridge. Everything outside those four names doesn't matter too much because they weren't getting serious talk as being top three guys. Or in other words you'd have to criticize everybody involved with the NBA if you're going to criticize Colangelo for not deviating from these four.

              One more thing, Colangelo tried to trade down and couldn't find a fair deal... Hmmm, maybe because there was no consensus #1 and teams thought that they could get a guy later on par with the #1 pick in terms of talent? My thoughts are certainly this was the case.

              If you can get the shiny red ball you want out of the toy chest picking fourth then why on earth would you trade your chocolate milk for the right to pick first?
              Last edited by Apollo; Wed Oct 20, 2010, 01:04 PM.

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              • #22
                I have to a agree with a lot of the points Tim W made. (I know you dont care SirChillyMost)

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                • #23
                  SirChillyMost wrote: View Post
                  I was thinking the exact same thing especially considering that Bargnani apparently didn't get off of his high horse last season in order to interact with the common Raptor folks a sper Weems they didn't a chance to get to know Bargnani last season.

                  It seems as if the locker room divide last season was due in part to Jay's lack of leadership abilities as he allowed it to fester all season long before trying to get all authoritative with Turk....smh The no discipline carried over onto the court & more than likely helped to cost the Rap's a playoff spot last season.

                  BC (The Joker), Gherardini (Mr Magoo) & Jay (Mista Doblina) aka The 3 Stooges aka 3 Blind Mice aka Dumb, Dumber & Dumbest need to stop the Euro/International roster/team experiment and field a real NBA team not a feel real NBA team ASAP or hit the road....smh
                  Dude you hate the Raptors way too much. I feel bad for you in a way.

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                  • #24
                    Apollo wrote: View Post
                    All I know is all the talk in 2006 was around Bargnani, Morrison, Aldridge and Tyrus Thomas when it came to the top three. There wasn't a consensus #1 but there was a consensus top four, even if there wasn't a consensus order to said top four. Out of those four Colangelo got the second best player. Rumors at the time were that he narrowed it down to Bargnani and Aldridge and ultimately chose Bargnani. So out of the four names dominately being tossed around for the top three picks, Colangelo had targeted the best two. You can sit here and criticize the hell out of him all you want but you best do it with the facts in hand. Bargnani is a hell of a lot better than Adam Morrison, somewhat better than Tyrus Thomas and not too far behind LaMarcus Aldridge. Everything outside those four names doesn't matter too much because they weren't getting serious talk as being top three guys. Or in other words you'd have to criticize everybody involved with the NBA if you're going to criticize Colangelo for not deviating from these four.

                    One more thing, Colangelo tried to trade down and couldn't find a fair deal... Hmmm, maybe because there was no consensus #1 and teams thought that they could get a guy later on par with the #1 pick in terms of talent? My thoughts are certainly this was the case.

                    If you can get the shiny red ball you want out of the toy chest picking fourth then why on earth would you trade your chocolate milk for the right to pick first?
                    There was alot more that led to the raptors picking bargnani 1st in that draft....reason they went for a big was after they had dealt Villaneuva for TJ Ford which would seem odd now given they dealt him and elected to start Calderon.....If you loko at the moves that lead up to the pick it makes the selection look even worse given the other deals around it didnt work out or got circumvented later on....

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                    • #25
                      I disagree. I think they had narrowed down the pick to Aldridge or Bargnani and were already talking to people about trading Charlie V to make way for it. They didn't used their #1 pick to select a big because they were going to trade Charlie V, they were going to trade Charlie V because they wanted to select one of two bigs. Colangelo had scouted Bargnani for years, well before he ever got an offer to join the Raptors. Aldridge was a highly skilled big man who would fit a full court system. It made sense it would come down to those two guys and the papers were confirming it leading up to the draft.

                      At the time the Charlie V for Ford trade looked good. No one could have knew that injuries would derail TJ's career like it did. Is either player doing anything significant right now? TJ is wasting away with the Pacers and Charlie is a poor man's Lamar Odom. Both are sitting on bloated contracts and I'm sure both franchises would jump at the opportunity to take a "mulligan".
                      Last edited by Apollo; Wed Oct 20, 2010, 01:19 PM.

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                      • #26
                        SirChillyMost wrote: View Post
                        Then you should know that those players who have been on the team the longest usually welcome the new guys onto the team not the other way around.....smh
                        a) Who's to say Bargnani didn't welcome them to the team?
                        b) You're not taking personality and language into consideration at all. Perhaps you've never been in a foreign speaking country, but it's incredibly difficult to insert yourself into a group of people who you might not understand half of what they say.

                        SirChillyMost wrote: View Post
                        Did I say that because BC isn't trying to trade Bargnani he's the Franchise player? No, I didn't....smh
                        You brought up the fact that Calderon and Bargnani are the longest serving Raptors, and that Colangelo is trying to trade Cadleron. You brought this up in a paragraph that discussed why Bargnani is the franchise player. I'm just trying to follow your logic. It can be difficult, sometimes.

                        SirChillyMost wrote: View Post
                        Yes, currently, I would consider DeMar to be a role player. As a matter of fact I don't think that he should even be starting I would go with Barbosa as the starting sg & Jack as the starting pg & use DeMar as the 6th man.
                        I don't know if ANY of the current Raptors should be starting, but that's not the point. The point is, on this Raptors team, DeRozan is one of the main guys.

                        SirChillyMost wrote: View Post
                        I think that Toronto does have a Franchise player that BC drafted #1 overall back in 2006 as a 5 year self proclaimed project and I believe that most people would tend to agree.
                        WHy do you keep bringing up the fact he was draft #1 overall. That's ancient history. And you have not once backed up WHY you think Bargnani is the franchise player. Just that he is. Just saying something doesn't make it so.

                        I don't think Bargnani is the franchise player because the offense doesn't revolve around him, the defense doesn't revolve around him and it's incredibly hard to be a franchise player when you don't have a dominant skill.

                        SirChillyMost wrote: View Post
                        Save that untenable drama for the Dalai Lama.
                        You've used that already. Do you have a new witty retort? And other than it rhyming, it doesn't really make much sense.

                        SirChillyMost wrote: View Post
                        If you know anything about the NBA then you will recognize the organizational value of the #1 overall draft pick in any draft- it matters. That's why some NBA teams tank in order to get a shot at the Lottery (#1 draft pick) & a Franchise player. And Andrea has underperformed as a former number 1 overall NBA draft pick in my mind and many others no matter if it was considered to be a weak draft- that's what scouting is for ie BRoy........smh
                        Teams hope to get the number one pick because the hope is that they will get a chance to draft the best player in the draft and, if their lucky, he will end up being a franchise player. In the last 20 years, Greg Oden, Andrew Bogut, Kwame Brown, Kenyon Martin, Elton Brand, Michael Olowokandi, Joe Smith and Glenn Robinson were all drafted #1. I don't consider ANY of them franchise players. And that's 40% of the number 1 picks in the last 20 years. I think guys like Bogut and Brand were/are excellent players who might be borderline All-Stars, but certainly not franchise players. In some cases, the guys right after them never became great, either. The draft is usually a crap shoot. Getting the #1 pick is simply a way to make the odds of getting a very good player better.

                        SirChillyMost wrote: View Post
                        I expected him to be beyond where he's currently at by year 5. Bargnani is very skilled especially offensively but not very willed to play hard all the time if he only played with Evans effort.......smh
                        I don't know why you were expecting Bargnani to be better than he is right now. When he was drafted he was a very poor rebounder who didn't get to the line and didn't seem to be able to play defense. If you don't learn that stuff before you're drafted, you're probably never learning it.

                        SirChillyMost wrote: View Post
                        When you quote my post I take it as you're talking to me....
                        My exact quote was "These comments that he's heartless or soulless simply make the person saying that seem petty". It was meant as a generalization, otherwise I would have said that it makes you seem petty.

                        SirChillyMost wrote: View Post
                        I said he plays with no heart- at least quote me correctly....smh
                        I'm pretty sure you have called him heartless on more than one occasion.

                        SirChillyMost wrote: View Post
                        That is my opinion- nothing more, nothing less......smh
                        If it's your opinion, don't say it's the truth.

                        SirChillyMost wrote: View Post
                        We had a conversation in another thread the other day ( I can't recall which thread off the top) and you made up some sh*t to make yourself come off as being right using another facetious rationalization just like today....smh I would go look for it but it's not that serious- feel free though...lol Btw- Tim W, you, my friend, are full of pure unadulterated facetious balderdash...........lol
                        I believe you are referring to the argument where I stated that Colangelo said that Brandon Roy was the best player in his draft year. I linked to two unrelated discussions about the quote and everyone but you seemed to agree I had backed up my argument. I have never made anything up in an argument and you are in fact lying by saying that.
                        Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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                        • #27
                          Apollo wrote: View Post
                          I disagree. I think they had narrowed down the pick to Aldridge or Bargnani and were already talking to people about trading Charlie V to make way for it. They didn't used their #1 pick to select a big because they were going to trade Charlie V, they were going to trade Charlie V because they wanted to select one of two bigs. Colangelo had scouted Bargnani for years, well before he ever got an offer to join the Raptors. Aldridge was a highly skilled big man who would fit a full court system. It made sense it would come down to those two guys and the papers were confirming it leading up to the draft.

                          At the time the Charlie V for Ford trade looked good. No one could have knew that injuries would derail TJ's career like it did. Is either player doing anything significant right now? TJ is wasting away with the Pacers and Charlie is a poor man's Lamar Odom. Both are sitting on bloated contracts and I'm sure both franchises would jump at the opportunity to take a "mulligan".
                          False !

                          Coming out his rookie season Chucky V looked like a decent big man..and the consensus is you dont trade big for small in the NBA...
                          In hindsight neither play amounted too much altho TJ 1st season here is still very underrated by the Calderon brigade BUT those moves def precipitated the selection of either bargs or LA and the overlooking of guards that were available in that draft....

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                          • #28
                            Apollo wrote: View Post
                            All I know is all the talk in 2006 was around Bargnani, Morrison, Aldridge and Tyrus Thomas when it came to the top three. There wasn't a consensus #1 but there was a consensus top four, even if there wasn't a consensus order to said top four. Out of those four Colangelo got the second best player. Rumors at the time were that he narrowed it down to Bargnani and Aldridge and ultimately chose Bargnani. So out of the four names dominately being tossed around for the top three picks, Colangelo had targeted the best two. You can sit here and criticize the hell out of him all you want but you best do it with the facts in hand. Bargnani is a hell of a lot better than Adam Morrison, somewhat better than Tyrus Thomas and not too far behind LaMarcus Aldridge. Everything outside those four names doesn't matter too much because they weren't getting serious talk as being top three guys.

                            One more thing, Colangelo tried to trade down and couldn't find a fair deal... Hmmm, maybe because there was no consensus #1 and teams knew thought that they could get a guy later on par with the #1 pick in terms of talent? My thoughts are, certainly.
                            Fact is that you don't draft an unknown overseas project with the number one overall pick- point blank, especially a self proclaimed 5 year project then in year 5 try to take all the pressure off of him being the Franchise go to guy by saying the team has no go to guy- then why did BC draft Bargnani in the 1st place to be a role player????

                            As a matter of fact the whole 2006 NBA draft stinks of Ewing/NY especially with the current perception in the basketball community that TO is a Euro team & has been an experimental Euro/International NBA team ever since BC took over. What better why to exemplify that than with a future foreign Franchise player? BC & Stern are 2 of the most deceiving folks in the NBA game in my mind.

                            Getting the second best player in your words, mind with the 1st pick.....smh

                            Bargnani wouldn't be a top 3 pick if the 2006 draft was redone in my mind.......arguably looking back he currently wouldn't be a top 5 pick- in a weak draft ie Rondo, Roy, Gay, Aldridge, Thomas....smh

                            As well Rudy Gay was in the discussion as a top 3 selection from my recollection. BRoy was a surprise only to those who didn't know that much about him as most anyone who followed hs/college basketball from the greater Seattle area knew he was a far better player than Morrison at the time.

                            Fyi- I wanted TO to draft my 206 Seattle brethren BRoy (as TO already had Bosh & Charlie V on the roster), Bosh wanted Aldridge at the time but BC wanted Bargnani- guess who won out?

                            Just like I wanted TO to draft TWilliams (206 Seattle ) over DeMar & Avery Bradley (206-253 Seattle/Tacoma) over EDavis (even though I like Davis the Rap's have enough PFs).

                            What type of offers did BC have for that #1 pick- remind me please.........forget being general please get specific that would be terrific.
                            Last edited by SirChillyMost; Wed Oct 20, 2010, 01:36 PM.

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                            • #29
                              ^ Ether

                              I forgot about Rudy Gay too,dont tell me Rudy Gay was not highly touted coming out of UConn...
                              Many people thought he was the best player his last year in college that had the highest ceiling as a pro...

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                              • #30
                                I still get mad thinking about drafting Joey Graham over Danny Granger....we coulda had our own superteam...

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