Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Amir Johnson at his best >>> Bargnani

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Trife76 wrote: View Post
    I said Amir at his best,not Amir taking stupid ass fouls and sitting on the bench...
    I also said Amir at his best. Amir at his very best is not as good as Bargnani at his very best. When Bargnani defends at his best, shoots at his best, rebounds at his best, get's to the line at his best, passes at his best, blocks shots at his best he is a better player than Amir Johnson.

    Bargnani/Johnson career highs:

    Points: 34/26
    FG Made: 14/10
    FG Attempted: 25/14
    3FG Made: 5/2
    3FG Attempted: 10/2
    FT Made: 9/6
    FT Attempted: 12/8
    Off. Rebounds: 5/9 (tonight)
    Def. Rebounds: 13/9
    Tot. Rebounds: 17/15
    Assists: 7/4
    Steals: 4/3
    Blocks: 6/7
    Minutes: 49/40
    Last edited by JoePanini; Sat Nov 6, 2010, 10:07 AM.

    Comment


    • #17
      Trife76 wrote: View Post
      I said Amir at his best,not Amir taking stupid ass fouls and sitting on the bench....When he pkays like he did tonight be is far more impactful to this team thasn Andrea because he does alot more and he makes himself a factor in the game he doesnt allow himself to get taken out of a game because he is aggressive at both ends and forces his work ethic into the game...Whe he rebounds at both ends,plyas good tough D and doesnt over think the game or try to do more than what he is capable you saw tonight at both ends how he can impact a game and against the leagues best team.....

      A guy who Ds up,rebounds aggressivelty and makes thing shappen around the offensive basket is more valuable than a perimeter guy weho very routinely fades out of games and doesnt give you any grit on the glass at either end....

      It was evident tonight,of course it was one game but if Amir could do this consistenly he has more value to this team than Andrea...
      What has happened to Johnson's post up game? Why did Triano stop using it given that Johnson's points per possession on post up plays last year was 4th best in the league. They post up Evans and Andersen but for some reason Triano hasn't seen fit to take advantage of Johnson's above average post up game. Probably doesn't fit into Triano's vision of what Johnson should be.

      That is pretty much how all relationships work. Once you have a vision of what the other person should be it rarely changes even to your detriment.

      http://nba-25-15.blogspot.com/2010/0...-vs-amare.html
      Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

      Memories some so sweet, indeed

      Larger Photo of the avatar



      Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

      Comment


      • #18
        Bargnani's trade value is probably the highest it is ever going to be right now. If Jose can put 8 - 10 good games in he will garner interest from a contending team looking for a back-up pg. (win it now vs. lock-out season next year)

        How about this. Barg's, Amir and Jose for Darrel Arthur, Acie Law and O. J. Mayo. (and whatever TPE is needed to make it work)

        The Raps tank because of the "adjustment" and draft Kyrie Irving or Brandon Knight.

        Two years down the road and we're looking strong. (if Bryan can hold it together)

        Comment


        • #19
          Introcollapse wrote: View Post
          Andrea creates his own shot, can hit the post or jack 3s, plays great man to man post d, and is an outstanding passer.
          HAH! Not really. You sound like Colangelo trying to sell an above average player as a great player.

          Comment


          • #20
            [QUOTE=Pele;48517

            How about this. Barg's, Amir and Jose for Darrel Arthur, Acie Law and O. J. Mayo. (and whatever TPE is needed to make it work)

            [/QUOTE]

            Change that to Acie Earl and I'm in!

            Comment


            • #21
              Pele wrote: View Post
              If Jose can put 8 - 10 good games in he will garner interest from a contending team looking for a back-up pg. (win it now vs. lock-out season next year)
              Why would anyone want Jose as a backup for 10m a year? About double what Jack is getting, who's equally as efficient.. Not to mention, injury prone

              Comment


              • #22
                MangoKid wrote: View Post
                Andrea put up 26, 9 and 2 the other night. Amir has one game of 12 and 15 - his best game of the season, yet Amir at his best is better than Bargnani? That's the best laugh I've had all night. Amir can hardly stay on the floor for 10 minutes. When he's consistent and puts up numbers like he did tonight game in and out, you can revisit that statement, but for now, it's just comedic relief.

                Exactly, that post is just plain laughable. Bargnani is far and away the only consistent impact player so far this season. Amir plays one good game not in his usual foul trouble and magically becomes more of an impact player than Andrea.

                Comment


                • #23
                  nubreed000 wrote: View Post
                  HAH! Not really. You sound like Colangelo trying to sell an above average player as a great player.
                  Above average Player??? Put the pipe down for at least half a day before you post. You sound like a typical ignorant Bargnani hater.
                  Last edited by RaptorRoo; Sat Nov 6, 2010, 01:46 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Introcollapse wrote: View Post
                    I don't understand how one can come to Trife's conclusion. I'm with you on this one, Mango.

                    Here's the thing. Amir is a power forward who can rebound, play slightly above average d, and score off of cuts and put backs. Other than that, he's completely worthless.

                    Andrea creates his own shot, can hit the post or jack 3s, plays great man to man post d, and is an outstanding passer.

                    Until Amir starts creating his own shots, and learns that just because he has the ball it doesn't mean he should shoot, I suggest you refrain from comparing these two players.
                    Not that I want to jump into this debate, but your argument is flawed. First of all, saying, apart from playing defense, rebounding and scoring around the basket, Amir does nothing. Well, I'd say those three things are VERY important and pretty much the baseline for what all big men should do.

                    And while a lot of his fans keep claiming that Bargnani can create his own shot and is a great passer, the numbers, as well as simply watching the games, go against that argument. The vast majority of Bargnani's field goals are assisted, and that's no different this year. Last night, only one field goal was not assisted. It's not that Bargnani doesn't TRY to create his own shot, it's just he's not very successful at it, for the most part. He shoots quite a low percentage on shots he tries to create for himself. And while Bargnani is posting up a little more this season, he's not hitting a good percentage of those shots. He's simply not comfortable down there. He's not comfortable with a lot of contact. He's not that type of player.

                    And no matter how many time his fans say he's a great passer, it doesn't make it so. He'll make a nice pass once in a while, but just about every player does that. It doesn't make them a great passer. He currently turns the ball over more than he gets an assist. If he was a great passer he'd get more than 1.4 assists per game.

                    Lastly, he's a good post defender, not a great one. Don't downplay what Amir really does well and pump up what Bargnani does well just to make your argument. It actually weakens it.

                    As for comparing the two, Amir is very good at a few things and Bargnani is good at a few things. Is scoring more important than defense and rebounding? I certainly don't think so and hopefully you don't either. The question is, is Amir a liability on the offensive end? Obviously not. He's probably not going to get you 20 points, but he can score. Is Bargnani a liability on the boards and defensive end?
                    Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                    Follow me on Twitter.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Tim W. wrote: View Post
                      Not that I want to jump into this debate, but your argument is flawed. First of all, saying, apart from playing defense, rebounding and scoring around the basket, Amir does nothing. Well, I'd say those three things are VERY important and pretty much the baseline for what all big men should do.

                      And while a lot of his fans keep claiming that Bargnani can create his own shot and is a great passer, the numbers, as well as simply watching the games, go against that argument. The vast majority of Bargnani's field goals are assisted, and that's no different this year. Last night, only one field goal was not assisted. It's not that Bargnani doesn't TRY to create his own shot, it's just he's not very successful at it, for the most part. He shoots quite a low percentage on shots he tries to create for himself. And while Bargnani is posting up a little more this season, he's not hitting a good percentage of those shots. He's simply not comfortable down there. He's not comfortable with a lot of contact. He's not that type of player.

                      And no matter how many time his fans say he's a great passer, it doesn't make it so. He'll make a nice pass once in a while, but just about every player does that. It doesn't make them a great passer. He currently turns the ball over more than he gets an assist. If he was a great passer he'd get more than 1.4 assists per game.

                      Lastly, he's a good post defender, not a great one. Don't downplay what Amir really does well and pump up what Bargnani does well just to make your argument. It actually weakens it.

                      As for comparing the two, Amir is very good at a few things and Bargnani is good at a few things. Is scoring more important than defense and rebounding? I certainly don't think so and hopefully you don't either. The question is, is Amir a liability on the offensive end? Obviously not. He's probably not going to get you 20 points, but he can score. Is Bargnani a liability on the boards and defensive end?
                      It's no question that Amir is a better rebounder than Andrea, but is he better defender? That's debatable at the moment. Johnson uses his hands a bit too much and doesn't use his lateral quickness or his length to his advantage. In comparison, Andrea doesn't use his lateral quickness and just doesn't use his hands at all - or his body. For those that say that Bargnani is a liability on the defensive end, I'd say that Johnson is just as much of a liability of the defensive end as well because he doesnt stay in front of his man and he commits too many fouls leading to him sitting on the bench. Both guys could be much better collectively on the defensive end.

                      However, at this present time, I can't say that Amir at his best is better than Andrea.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        IMO Johnson's greatest potential is the first big of the bench. He is an energy guy who can rebound, block shots, dunk on a dish, and run the break. If he can average 10-12 points and 7-8 rebs in 20mpg, I'd be very happy.

                        Of course the Raps problem is not bigs coming off the bench, it is lack of big to start the game.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          MangoKid wrote: View Post
                          It's no question that Amir is a better rebounder than Andrea, but is he better defender? That's debatable at the moment. Johnson uses his hands a bit too much and doesn't use his lateral quickness or his length to his advantage. In comparison, Andrea doesn't use his lateral quickness and just doesn't use his hands at all - or his body. For those that say that Bargnani is a liability on the defensive end, I'd say that Johnson is just as much of a liability of the defensive end as well because he doesnt stay in front of his man and he commits too many fouls leading to him sitting on the bench. Both guys could be much better collectively on the defensive end.

                          However, at this present time, I can't say that Amir at his best is better than Andrea.
                          I would most definitely say that Amir is a better defender than Bargnani. No question. Bargnani is better defending bigger guys in the post, but Amir is so much better on quicker guys and playing team defense that he definitely surpasses Bargnani defensively. Easily. Amir isn't a liability on the defensive end. Bargnani is.

                          As for which one is better, I don't know. It's pretty subjective, if you ask me. Both are skilled players. Obviously Amir has trouble staying on the floor, which is a problem. If you want to ask me which player I'd rather have on my team, I'd say Amir every time, though. Amir may have trouble staying on the floor, but at least he's not going to be a liability when he's on the floor. Bargnani is. To me, that's the deal breaker.
                          Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                          Follow me on Twitter.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Tim W. wrote: View Post
                            I would most definitely say that Amir is a better defender than Bargnani. No question. Bargnani is better defending bigger guys in the post, but Amir is so much better on quicker guys and playing team defense that he definitely surpasses Bargnani defensively. Easily. Amir isn't a liability on the defensive end. Bargnani is.

                            As for which one is better, I don't know. It's pretty subjective, if you ask me. Both are skilled players. Obviously Amir has trouble staying on the floor, which is a problem. If you want to ask me which player I'd rather have on my team, I'd say Amir every time, though. Amir may have trouble staying on the floor, but at least he's not going to be a liability when he's on the floor. Bargnani is. To me, that's the deal breaker.

                            ^ problem in here is dudes are trying to change the thread title..i clearly said Amir at his best is better..not the Amir who picks up sloppy fouls and plays 10 mins...Clearly last night is Amir at his best and its far more valuable to this team than what Andrea gives,IMO its not even really that close..he was dominated at both ends...he gives what we need a big to give us and thats a far cry from a big who scores irrelevant points and gives you nothing else....I mean D12 is a perfect example fo a guy who isnt great offensively but dominates a game because rebounding and defense...and is considered a top 5 player....thats how important it is at that position....

                            and the other fail in here is attempting to argue comparitivity between what Amir does and Andrea..you cant they play diff positions and do different things..im comparing what they do respectively at there position and what it amounts for the team....

                            Dudes in here trying to compare what Amir does defensively and Andrea is futile...Amir guard quick smaller players he doesnt need to protect the rim he needs to be quick and use his hands and feet,athleticism.....Andrea has to protect the rim and body guys inside and make them earn there points.....Amir is much better at what we need him to do than Andrea is supposed to do...thats the basic premise of this thread......

                            Suggesting well Andrea gets his own shot and scores more and has range us rrelevant compared to Amir because thats not what Amir is here for...what he does and is expected of him is ore impactful than what Andrea does and what is expected of him.....

                            In that form just watching last night against the Utah,SAC games its pretty evident...Amir is more valuable when he plays too his ceiling...

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              The most ridiculus thread Ive seen in a long time.

                              Andrea IS a legit #1 option on an NBA team. He draws a double team, has a solid post game, can hit three and the mid range jumper as well as any big man in the league. Hes not the best rebounder or team defender (solid one one one defender) - true.

                              Amir is hoping to become a fifth starter, hustle type player who is slightly more reliable than Reggie if asked to actually create his own shot (or gets the ball with less than 10 seconds on the shot clock) . He runs the floor well, is a great finisher in the open court and a good rebounder. So far, his defense is suspect, since he cant seem to stay on the floor long enough to make a difference without collecting a bunch of fouls.

                              Listen - I love Amir, I hope he turns into a valuable member of the raps, but lets be clear, even in his wildest dreams, hes a solid #4 of #5 option on a good NBA team. Andrea, as much as everyone hates on him, can deliver 20+ a night with the other team designing their D to stop him.

                              Its not even debateable, and I wish raps fans would get behind their best player .. cause this team aint going anywhere without him ...

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                mountio wrote: View Post
                                the most ridiculus thread ive seen in a long time.

                                Andrea is a legit #1 option on an nba team. He draws a double team, has a solid post game, can hit three and the mid range jumper as well as any big man in the league. Hes not the best rebounder or team defender (solid one one one defender) - true.

                                Amir is hoping to become a fifth starter, hustle type player who is slightly more reliable than reggie if asked to actually create his own shot (or gets the ball with less than 10 seconds on the shot clock) . He runs the floor well, is a great finisher in the open court and a good rebounder. So far, his defense is suspect, since he cant seem to stay on the floor long enough to make a difference without collecting a bunch of fouls.

                                Listen - i love amir, i hope he turns into a valuable member of the raps, but lets be clear, even in his wildest dreams, hes a solid #4 of #5 option on a good nba team. Andrea, as much as everyone hates on him, can deliver 20+ a night with the other team designing their d to stop him.

                                Its not even debateable, and i wish raps fans would get behind their best player .. Cause this team aint going anywhere without him ...
                                QFT. /thread

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X