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  • #16
    grindhouse wrote: View Post
    I know we got alot of number crunchers on here, so I want to know the raptors plus/minus numbers when he is on the court.

    From what I see he has been making all the right decisions while he was on the court help defense, man to man defense, taking open jumpers, aggressively going to the rim when he is suppose to, boxing out, making the extra pass, and crashing the boards on the defensive glass then sprinting down the floor.

    could he start?
    Good timing - had just looked that up. Agree that he needs to see more min.
    He's only played in 13% of the available minutes, so sample size is very small.

    82games: http://www.82games.com/1011/1011TOR.HTM
    Basketballvalue: http://basketballvalue.com/player.ph...sortorder=DESC

    Numbers are impressive so far. Again, very limited minutes, but played well against both the Lakers and Trailblazers' starters.
    Keep his minutes going until he proves otherwise.
    http://twitter.com/Liston

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    • #17
      Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
      When will the starting line-up change? When the team is 1-21? Triano went on last night saying that he's proud of the team. Great, for morale I guess. Offense continues to be a problem and defence was lagging just behind the offence. We saw glimpses last night of what Wright can do and yet he still cannot start. Kleiza is great but streaky. His defence is average at best and at SF, his mobility is suspect. I'm not throwing him under the bus, he just deserves to be the #1 or # 2 offensive option off the bench. Reggie should come off the bench too and after last night, I'm convinced that DeMar should come off the bench in favour of Weems. No, these are not Monday armchair quarterback moves, just a very keen observation from the last 5 games. Tweak to this line-up Jay:

      PG: Calderon - Assists to turn-over ratio is way better than Jack. Needs to regain shooting stroke.

      SG: Weems - Mobile, still takes bad shots but defenders will have to be honest with him - this means he spreads the floor.

      SF: Wright - Better defender, energy guy, puts the ball on the floor, another interior option if need be, really crashes the glass with reckless abandon, slightly wild. Kleiza better scorer - but off the bench.

      PF: Johnson - Energy, rebounds, put-backs, offence in the post. With him, we have an inside, outside game. Bargs, can set up a tent, a sleeping bag and several Twilight novels at the 3-point line and we'd still be ok.

      C: Bargani - Spreads the floor.

      Bench:
      Jack (horrible turnovers last night - 6, Jose had 9 dimes, 1 TO - nuff said)
      Derozan
      Kleiza
      Evans
      Anderson

      For the love of god Jay, please change. Also, why are we so proud of bench scoring when our current bench SHOULD BE STARTING?
      Jose also shot 1-9 from the field and 1-3 from 3 point range.

      ---------------------------

      Wright Interview
      Last edited by RaptorsFan4Life; Thu Nov 11, 2010, 08:56 PM.

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      • #18
        Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
        When will the starting line-up change? When the team is 1-21? Triano went on last night saying that he's proud of the team. Great, for morale I guess. Offense continues to be a problem and defence was lagging just behind the offence. We saw glimpses last night of what Wright can do and yet he still cannot start. Kleiza is great but streaky. His defence is average at best and at SF, his mobility is suspect. I'm not throwing him under the bus, he just deserves to be the #1 or # 2 offensive option off the bench. Reggie should come off the bench too and after last night, I'm convinced that DeMar should come off the bench in favour of Weems. No, these are not Monday armchair quarterback moves, just a very keen observation from the last 5 games. Tweak to this line-up Jay:

        PG: Calderon - Assists to turn-over ratio is way better than Jack. Needs to regain shooting stroke.

        SG: Weems - Mobile, still takes bad shots but defenders will have to be honest with him - this means he spreads the floor.

        SF: Wright - Better defender, energy guy, puts the ball on the floor, another interior option if need be, really crashes the glass with reckless abandon, slightly wild. Kleiza better scorer - but off the bench.

        PF: Johnson - Energy, rebounds, put-backs, offence in the post. With him, we have an inside, outside game. Bargs, can set up a tent, a sleeping bag and several Twilight novels at the 3-point line and we'd still be ok.

        C: Bargani - Spreads the floor.

        Bench:
        Jack (horrible turnovers last night - 6, Jose had 9 dimes, 1 TO - nuff said)
        Derozan
        Kleiza
        Evans
        Anderson

        For the love of god Jay, please change. Also, why are we so proud of bench scoring when our current bench SHOULD BE STARTING?
        What happens when Wright starts going through a scoring slump and become a liability on that end? That happened in New Orleans, which is why they were so anxious to replace him. And what happens when Jack starts playing really well or Weems goes through another period where he forces shots? And what happens when DeRozan starts playing like he should again?

        Your starting lineup is a kneejerk one. DeRozan has been playing much better than Weems for most of the season, yet because DeRozan goes through a slump, you want to replace him with Weems. And Kleiza is clearly more talented than Wright, but is not playing well at the moment, probably due to injury.

        And I also have to question how much of a difference changing the starting lineup will really have. I'm all for finding what combinations work best, but who starts and who doesn't isn't really going to change the outcome of most games. The biggest problem with this team is they are young, inexperienced and, quite frankly, not incredibly talented. Replacing Jack with Calderon isn't really going to make that big a difference. If you're going to pick a starting lineup, the last thing you want to do is be influenced by is whether or not a player is going through a slump, or something like that.

        I've got no problem with changing the starting lineup, but it should be based on more than just who's playing well.

        One thing you have to remember is that about the only strength the Raptors have right now is depth. They can send 10-11 guys out on the floor with not much dropoff in talent. Maybe that means keeping Johnson on the bench when he can give the bench some inside scoring. Maybe it means mixing and matching certain players.

        In the end, though, what matters most is who is on the floor in crunch time. The Raptors lack a goto player this year, and that has hurt them just about every game. No matter who is on the floor, they're still a relatively inexperienced roster that doesn't really know how to win. Changing the starting lineup won't change any of that.
        Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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        • #19
          we saw this in pre-season. the pg. that plays 2nd string looks better because they play with better players. weems, barbosa and amir should be starting. if you play jack with that line it would be the same thing. it was the same thing he looks better that JC. JC. Kleiza. AB. and reggie. can you see how shit that would be.

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          • #20
            is it just me or has anyone else noticed the raptors never have 5 american players on the court at once. there is always a dash of salt in with the pepper

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            • #21
              Tim W. wrote: View Post
              What happens when Wright starts going through a scoring slump and become a liability on that end? That happened in New Orleans, which is why they were so anxious to replace him. And what happens when Jack starts playing really well or Weems goes through another period where he forces shots? And what happens when DeRozan starts playing like he should again?

              Your starting lineup is a kneejerk one. DeRozan has been playing much better than Weems for most of the season, yet because DeRozan goes through a slump, you want to replace him with Weems. And Kleiza is clearly more talented than Wright, but is not playing well at the moment, probably due to injury.

              And I also have to question how much of a difference changing the starting lineup will really have. I'm all for finding what combinations work best, but who starts and who doesn't isn't really going to change the outcome of most games. The biggest problem with this team is they are young, inexperienced and, quite frankly, not incredibly talented. Replacing Jack with Calderon isn't really going to make that big a difference. If you're going to pick a starting lineup, the last thing you want to do is be influenced by is whether or not a player is going through a slump, or something like that.

              I've got no problem with changing the starting lineup, but it should be based on more than just who's playing well.

              One thing you have to remember is that about the only strength the Raptors have right now is depth. They can send 10-11 guys out on the floor with not much dropoff in talent. Maybe that means keeping Johnson on the bench when he can give the bench some inside scoring. Maybe it means mixing and matching certain players.

              In the end, though, what matters most is who is on the floor in crunch time. The Raptors lack a goto player this year, and that has hurt them just about every game. No matter who is on the floor, they're still a relatively inexperienced roster that doesn't really know how to win. Changing the starting lineup won't change any of that.
              Tim, this is not a knee-jerk line-up. The Raps could be 3-3 and I'd still prefer this line-up simply because it addresses 2 critical things: 1 - mobile defence, 2 - offence without compromise. Sometimes when you put guys that are good at something, they end up compromising other areas (these players are Reggie and Kleiza). As much as I hated Calderon's clap defence, I'm now starting to appreciate his TO to assists ratio once again simply because of how bad Jack is in this department. I was also never high in Derozan even starting last year. There's so much for him to learn and he's still young. Weems is more experienced, better handles and better shots (selection is another issue). The Wright trade i was excited about, especially for what we gave up. He's a better defender than I thought. He was relied upon as well when West went down. For the record, they weren't itching to get rid of him. NO simply had a need to address at SG, period. As far as Johnson is concerned, I lauded the signing as well but admittedly started to question the signing 3 games into the season (that I'll admit as a bit of a knee-jerk), but he has played well and let's face it, he is paid a lot of money for a bench player (same goes for Calderon - but that doesn't warrant his starting, just way less TO's).

              So Tim, that's why I suggested this line-up. I'm sure you watch all the games. I'm also sure that we both agree the bench is above average. But at 1-7 with a tough 4 game sched coming up, the bench will continue to outscore the opposing bench, yet the losses keep piling up. This is the team's choice.

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              • #22
                Tim W. wrote: View Post
                And I also have to question how much of a difference changing the starting lineup will really have. I'm all for finding what combinations work best, but who starts and who doesn't isn't really going to change the outcome of most games. The biggest problem with this team is they are young, inexperienced and, quite frankly, not incredibly talented.
                1. It seems to me that you want your best players to get the most minutes. The best way to insure that, not withstanding foul trouble is to start them. The lead off position in baseball over the course of a season always averages more plate appearances than any other position. So you usually want to lead off with the guy who gets on base the most often but doesn't have the power to drive in the runs. R. Henderson was probably the best exception to this rule, there have been others, in that he could hit home runs but his speed was worth more than his power, 4sure.

                2. You are correct on this to a certain extent. The biggest problem with the team is the starting lineup. With the correct starting lineup it seems to me that the Raptors could do a lot better than 1 - 7 soon to be 1 - 9 if the starting lineup isn't changed in FL.

                You can't win in the NBA playing four on five on offense. Look at the Heat. They are trying to win playing 3 - 5 on offense when the game starts and then 1 on 5 or 2 on 5 for the rest of the game. Miami made it close in the end last night because Haslem was 9 out 10 at one point. If Haslem could score 15 - 20 a game then the Heat would be a lot better then they have so far shown themselves to be.



                Basketball will always be a game of who scores the most wins the most. In order to score the most you need to be able to shoot better than your opponent. Its great to be able to rebound and play defense but when you can't score as well as your opponents because you play most of the 1st and 3rd quarters going four on five on offense and without a true point guard on the court, you ain't going to win too many of the 1st and 3rd quarters and too many of your games period.

                Yes the Raptors like every other team in the league would be better if they had better talent. So on this you are correct.
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                Memories some so sweet, indeed

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                • #23
                  Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
                  he is paid a lot of money for a bench player
                  There are numerous and I mean numerous bench players in the NBA who are making more than his $5 salary for 10-11.

                  I don't even need to compile a complete list but here are few to start.

                  1. T. Thomas
                  2. L. Odom - who comes off the bench when Pau and Drew are healthy
                  3. A. Varejao
                  4. Manu for a long time
                  5. etc etc.
                  Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

                  Memories some so sweet, indeed

                  Larger Photo of the avatar



                  Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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                  • #24
                    Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
                    Tim, this is not a knee-jerk line-up. The Raps could be 3-3 and I'd still prefer this line-up simply because it addresses 2 critical things: 1 - mobile defence, 2 - offence without compromise. Sometimes when you put guys that are good at something, they end up compromising other areas (these players are Reggie and Kleiza). As much as I hated Calderon's clap defence, I'm now starting to appreciate his TO to assists ratio once again simply because of how bad Jack is in this department. I was also never high in Derozan even starting last year. There's so much for him to learn and he's still young. Weems is more experienced, better handles and better shots (selection is another issue). The Wright trade i was excited about, especially for what we gave up. He's a better defender than I thought. He was relied upon as well when West went down. For the record, they weren't itching to get rid of him. NO simply had a need to address at SG, period. As far as Johnson is concerned, I lauded the signing as well but admittedly started to question the signing 3 games into the season (that I'll admit as a bit of a knee-jerk), but he has played well and let's face it, he is paid a lot of money for a bench player (same goes for Calderon - but that doesn't warrant his starting, just way less TO's).

                    So Tim, that's why I suggested this line-up. I'm sure you watch all the games. I'm also sure that we both agree the bench is above average. But at 1-7 with a tough 4 game sched coming up, the bench will continue to outscore the opposing bench, yet the losses keep piling up. This is the team's choice.
                    I apologize for calling it a knee-jerk reaction, but a lot of people seem to be wanting to change the lineup simply because of how certain players are playing right now. Your mention of how Jack played in the last game made me think you were, too. Personally, I think, in most cases, you play the best players in the starting lineup. I think Kleiza is simply a better player than Wright and DeRozan is a better player than Weems.

                    I think Triano is keeping Calderon playing as much as he can with Amir because they play so well together, and when Ed Davis comes back, I'm assuming he'll be inserted into the starting lineup as soon as possible.

                    I think the focus on this season should be development. Giving as much experience to guys like DeRozan and Davis, and less on eeking out as many wins as possible. If Triano really wanted to win every single game, he'd slow the game down to a crawl, play his most veteran players the most and sit a guys like Davis and DeRozan. That's obviously not best for the franchise, though.
                    Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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