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  • JoePanini
    replied
    raptordan wrote: View Post
    what? Support the team? You're on the wrong forum. The purpose of this forum is to bitch about players, especially bargnani, and to ridicule other posters. Logical arguments are to be dismissed and any positive comments made about players are to be met with disparaging put-downs.
    +1 lol

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  • RaptorDan
    replied
    What? Support the team? You're on the wrong forum. The purpose of this forum is to bitch about players, especially Bargnani, and to ridicule other posters. Logical arguments are to be dismissed and any positive comments made about players are to be met with disparaging put-downs.

    Leave a comment:


  • ab7
    replied
    Red and White wrote: View Post
    I am one of those people who bashes bargnani for his rebounding, but you bring up a good case.

    Everyone seems to think that evans is out of here before next season, so in the long term, we have a problem.

    I disagree with you that rebounding can or cant win games. Every rebound is a possesion, offensive or defensive.

    Count the oboards allowed on d as turnovers. Same thing.

    Good post non the less...

    RAW

    (welcome to the site btw)
    thanks man glad to support my team

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  • Doc
    replied
    ab7 wrote: View Post
    WTV ... an english class wasn't the point of the post but thanks anyways i guess
    No worries man .... appreciate the effort.

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  • JoePanini
    replied
    We still grab more rebounds than are opposition on most nights.

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  • Tim W.
    replied
    Aksent wrote: View Post
    On the serious side though, Bargs' rebound deficinecy is kinda made up for by Reggie + Amir, and the fact that he scores 20+ a game, and we're still in the top half of the league in rebounding overall, kinda gives him a pass.
    If the team that got the most rebounds won every time then Reggie and Amir simply making up for Bargnani's numbers would solve the problem. As I state in my post above yours, it doesn't work that way.

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  • Bendit
    replied
    ab7 wrote: View Post
    I see a bunch of fan bashing about bargs rebound....I give it to you he canT.

    BUT when u are loking at a starting front court who in the best world give u about 25-28 rebound i think as a team we are not tha bad
    sf 5-8 pf 8-10 c 10 or more

    Si if weems grabs 5 evans keep taking 13 an bargnani 6 its still looks good front court not
    great but good


    what do u think

    pS same aplies if weems has 7 barg 2 and evans 16
    btw...congratulations to the city of Montreal basketball fans who showed up for preseason game with the Knicks. They were loud and enthusiastic.

    The Bargs -Evans tandem is like an unholy alliance and not one destined to be around even for the season probably. The reasons have been well documented.

    One which I didnt catch is that by having Reggie on the floor to compensate for Bargs deficiency in the rebounding area puts the team at a disadvantage because of his mostly non-factor offensively. What this essentially means is that apart from the opposing team somewhat disregarding defending Evans this allows them to possibly double team Bargs or someone else and also becomes imperative that Bargs not have an off night offensively. There is a cost benefit aspect to this and for Bargnani to continue to play the way he is as far as overall defense (though he does seem to be improving) ...he must score around the 30 mark on average in order for the team to be in the game. This would make him an allstar but how about the team?!

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  • Red and White
    replied
    I am one of those people who bashes bargnani for his rebounding, but you bring up a good case.

    Everyone seems to think that evans is out of here before next season, so in the long term, we have a problem.

    I disagree with you that rebounding can or cant win games. Every rebound is a possesion, offensive or defensive.

    Count the oboards allowed on d as turnovers. Same thing.

    Good post non the less...

    RAW

    (welcome to the site btw)

    Leave a comment:


  • Aksent
    replied
    I keep thinking about a quote that Charley Rosen @ FoxSports.com made about Bargnani in a recent column of his:

    "And Andrea Bargnani is the most inept-rebounding center in recent memory. A 7-foot blind man could stand in the paint with his hands stretched and come up with more rebounds than this guy"

    I laughed when I read it, but its probably true

    On the serious side though, Bargs' rebound deficinecy is kinda made up for by Reggie + Amir, and the fact that he scores 20+ a game, and we're still in the top half of the league in rebounding overall, kinda gives him a pass.

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  • Tim W.
    replied
    There are a couple of problems with this theory. The first is that Bargnani is not simply a poor rebounder, he doesn't prevent the opposing team from grabbing rebounds. The most famous example was against Sacramento when Bargnani allowed Cousins to grab two crunchtime offensive rebounds that helped turn the tide. It also happened against Boston last night in the last few minutes when Bargnani allowed Glen Davis to grab an offensive board he should have grabbed.

    See the problem is that it's not just about numbers. It's about situations. Evans could grab 30 rebounds, but if Bargnani allows his man to grab an offensive rebound at a bad time, it can lose them the game. The difference between winning and losing is usually making fewer mistakes than the other team, especially in the last few minutes. If you've got a big man that can't prevent his man from grabbing an offensive rebounding, his team could play fantastic defense, but it won't matter.

    Speaking of defense, Bargnani also has more than a bit of a problem on that end. To simply focus on rebounding and saying that other people can cover it (which they can't) ignores the fact that Bargnani is also a massive liability on defense. Read what I wrote in the preceding paragraph and that goes double for defense. Having a big man who is a weak link on defense is an absolute killer.

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  • heinz57
    replied
    ab7 wrote: View Post
    WTV ... an english class wasn't the point of the post but thanks anyways i guess
    sorry, man.. no offense was meant... was just going for a quick giggle on my last post before leaving work

    bottom line though, i agree with you

    Leave a comment:


  • Balls of Steel
    replied
    If the point of this post was to admit that Bargs' game really does not include a lot of rebounds, then the thread has served its purpose. I for one feel that individual rebounding as a statistic is way overblown. Earlier in my post about Reggie, I made references to the fact the Kevin Love is leading the league in all kinds of statistical categories in rebounds and yet his team is still atrocious. If you think of his tandem with Beasley, I'd say they are a force to be reckoned with. However, their collective defensive effort is so porous that the team as a whole suffers.

    Andrea's current line of 21.7 ppg, 4.8 reb, 0.7 blocks, is a good line, if you're a small forward. There will be less bitching about Bargs if his line is along the lines of 17 to 18 ppg and 7 to 8 rebounds and a little over a block per game. Also as TheR3dMenace mentioned above, his rebounding or the lack thereof will not determine the success of the Raps in any season for as long as he's patrolling the middle. I agree with this wholeheartedly, HOWEVER, it WOULD make a tremendous difference if Bargs was an imposing presence that truly plays in accordance with his SIZE and POSITION. A center that makes opposing attackers think a little once they enter a paint would be nice from time to time. Instead, because of mediocre perimeter defense (team-wise), the paint is often penetrated and with Bargs in the middle the way he is, how can he be an adequate last line of defense? When Orlando's perimeter defense breaks down, they have Howard down there. Now, I'm not comparing the two players. I just want to illustrate the importance of a solid defender in the paint (the way most centers are supposed to be).

    Lets put it this way, if Bargs was traded for Noah tomorrow, there will be plenty of basketball fans alike that will feel that it is a lopsided deal. Many will agree that the hustle, grit, leadership and intensity that Noah brings is much more sought after than Bargnani's scoring. In the end, a little more effort goes a long way. Rebound hard, box out your man and foul hard whenever necessary. He needs to make anyone think twice so that they can't just walk in his kitchen and steal his food!

    PS> In many games that I have watched since he started playing for the Raps, he lacks the fundamentals of positioning for rebounding and defending (even now). It's astounding to see shorter players getting the ball over him.
    Last edited by Balls of Steel; Mon Nov 22, 2010, 07:45 PM.

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  • blackjitsu
    replied
    TheR3dMenace wrote: View Post
    Bargnani's rebounding, or lack thereof, is not going to be the reason the raptors win or lose on any given night.
    +1000

    On the fans rebounding on Andrea...I would still trade him for the right player. There's no one on this current roster who couldn't be traded. Where would we get the points? I'm sure we would find them. If we had a center who owned the paint other teams would score a bit less as well. I'm cool with what Bargs does, but the team means more than one player to me.

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  • TheR3dMenace
    replied
    Bargnani's rebounding, or lack thereof, is not going to be the reason the raptors win or lose on any given night.

    Leave a comment:


  • Woo Hah
    replied
    I think it is a big deal that your starting center does not rebound....*shrugs*

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