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  • #16
    DirtyMikeSeaver wrote: View Post
    I think the problem is that we're asking 2 players that are under 25 that haven't played 2 full seasons in the league who have never started on the NBA level to give a consistent effort against teams that more often than not have bonafide NBA starters.

    The "dirty little secret" about the Raptors is that their Shooting Guard/Small Forward position has be WOEFUL over the past 5 years (that why I laugh whenever someone on the Raptors, be it the coaching staff or broadcasting team takes a shot at Chris Bosh because he couldn't be a 'franchise player' with the likes of Joey Graham, Jamario Moon and Fred Jones). Weems and DeRozan right now aren't great, there's no doubt about that, but these are the growing pains that you have when you go with young players. It's on the coaching staff now to guide these guys and make them play within themselves. The NBA is littered with guys who people gave up on that turned out okay (Joe Johnson, Chauncey Billups) or guys that struggled at the beginning that blossomed (Tracy McGrady, John Salmons).

    Oh BTW, I know PER and Value Added isn't everything, but despite their troubles, both have PERs and VAs that are higher than James Harden, OJ Mayo, Kirk Hinrich and Evan Turner (who was the No. 2 Overall pick). And Weems has a better PER than Rudy Fernandez. So let's not go TOO crazy with this. Remember, this is a bad team where their best player is the 7 foot tall Italian Ben Gordon
    The Problem with DeRozan in my opinion is that he is still thinking playground basketball.

    What DeRozan should be doing if he was really serious about being a NBA all-star is staying in the gym after each practice until he makes at least 200 jump shots from beyond 15 feet. Given his lack of shooting improvement I doubt that he is doing that.

    I think that serious hard work beyond just playing playground style basketball in the summer would not only show up in improved shooting during Raptors games but also improved defense. Why improved defense? If he was serious enough about improving his offense he would be serious about improving his defense. I haven't noticed much if any improvement in his court awareness on defense since he has come to the Raptors.
    Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

    Memories some so sweet, indeed

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    • #17
      I think it will be growing pains as well. We fans are hard on our teams because we want to win and we don't want to wait. Anyone dispute that? I would guess not. It's fair, there are some of us that put more energy that is probably healthy into these games and these blogs, but we enjoy it. That makes those pains all the worse. I would hate to see talent go by the wayside because we were too short sited to see their potential. It's a hard decision to make and we are not qualified to make it. We don't know what's going on behind the scenes, in the office, trade possibilities, etc. We just speculate and interpret what we see on the floor.

      I really want to see these two develop and we've seen spurts of it. (did these slumps happen after JJ was traded? that would be interested to note. I have no idea that just came to me). They need plays run for them and they need to put out a full effort. These two were fantastic in the summer league and I would hope would grow to be that way here too. It's just a growing experience playing against the best talent in the world at those positions. Time and coaching will help. It's just not an easy fix.

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      • #18
        DirtyMikeSeaver wrote: View Post
        I think the problem is that we're asking 2 players that are under 25 that haven't played 2 full seasons in the league who have never started on the NBA level to give a consistent effort against teams that more often than not have bonafide NBA starters.

        The "dirty little secret" about the Raptors is that their Shooting Guard/Small Forward position has be WOEFUL over the past 5 years (that why I laugh whenever someone on the Raptors, be it the coaching staff or broadcasting team takes a shot at Chris Bosh because he couldn't be a 'franchise player' with the likes of Joey Graham, Jamario Moon and Fred Jones). Weems and DeRozan right now aren't great, there's no doubt about that, but these are the growing pains that you have when you go with young players. It's on the coaching staff now to guide these guys and make them play within themselves. The NBA is littered with guys who people gave up on that turned out okay (Joe Johnson, Chauncey Billups) or guys that struggled at the beginning that blossomed (Tracy McGrady, John Salmons).

        Oh BTW, I know PER and Value Added isn't everything, but despite their troubles, both have PERs and VAs that are higher than James Harden, OJ Mayo, Kirk Hinrich and Evan Turner (who was the No. 2 Overall pick). And Weems has a better PER than Rudy Fernandez. So let's not go TOO crazy with this. Remember, this is a bad team where their best player is the 7 foot tall Italian Ben Gordon
        For. The. Win. Spot on with all your comments IMO.
        The Double Champ is here!
        Dynasty King: RRNBADLS7
        Raptors: Larry O'Brien

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        • #19
          I've heard that Sonny has had a couple of things distracting him lately
          Never, under any circumstances, take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.

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          • #20
            RaptorDan wrote: View Post
            I've heard that Sonny has had a couple of things distracting him lately
            i heard he liked asian trannys but i didnt think it was true! LOL

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            • #21
              Rg1990 wrote: View Post
              I see it as too many young players do develope , not enough even distribution. Or maybe Demar just doesn't have it. He definitely can't rely on athleticism. Or like I said, he's not getting the ball. Bargnani is the focus so he's get most touches. What bothers me is that Bargnani is still being billed as the franchise player. Sure Bosh wasn't a franchise player, but he could still score 20 + points a game as well as close to 10 rebounds. Yeah Bargnani is average over 20 ppg this season but it will decline every game he fails to score over 20 points, which is going to be often. It makes me cringe when Bargs scores 28 points one night and then 12 the next. That isn't acceptable. For a first overall pick , he should have averaged 20 ppg long ago. Not in his 5th season.

              I don't see Ed Davis being a scoring threat for a while if at all. Thinking about it, as much as people hate to admit, Vince Carter is and always will be the greatest player ever to dawn a raptors jersey. I believe he has the single season average raptor record of 27 ppg. Remember people were hailing Demar as the next Vince Carter? While looks like it won't be that way. I will probably be a while before this franchise has another superstar player. Let's hope whoever we draft in next years draft turns out to be the next Kobe or Lebron.
              LMAO setting your hopes a little high no?
              Last edited by nubreed000; Wed Dec 8, 2010, 01:41 AM.

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              • #22
                Buddahfan wrote: View Post
                The Problem with DeRozan in my opinion is that he is still thinking playground basketball.

                What DeRozan should be doing if he was really serious about being a NBA all-star is staying in the gym after each practice until he makes at least 200 jump shots from beyond 15 feet. Given his lack of shooting improvement I doubt that he is doing that.

                I think that serious hard work beyond just playing playground style basketball in the summer would not only show up in improved shooting during Raptors games but also improved defense. Why improved defense? If he was serious enough about improving his offense he would be serious about improving his defense. I haven't noticed much if any improvement in his court awareness on defense since he has come to the Raptors.
                +1 about Derozan shooting 200 jumpshots from 15 feet after practice. Evidence - Shannon Brown was all athlete little basketball player a la Demar but he put in work over the summer shooting jumpers and there is an improvement in his jumpshots this season for the Lakers.

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                • #23
                  albertan_10 wrote: View Post
                  I think it will be growing pains as well. We fans are hard on our teams because we want to win and we don't want to wait. Anyone dispute that? I would guess not. It's fair, there are some of us that put more energy that is probably healthy into these games and these blogs, but we enjoy it. That makes those pains all the worse. I would hate to see talent go by the wayside because we were too short sited to see their potential. It's a hard decision to make and we are not qualified to make it. We don't know what's going on behind the scenes, in the office, trade possibilities, etc. We just speculate and interpret what we see on the floor.

                  I really want to see these two develop and we've seen spurts of it. (did these slumps happen after JJ was traded? that would be interested to note. I have no idea that just came to me). They need plays run for them and they need to put out a full effort. These two were fantastic in the summer league and I would hope would grow to be that way here too. It's just a growing experience playing against the best talent in the world at those positions. Time and coaching will help. It's just not an easy fix.
                  As a fan, I am willing to go through growing pains for this team but what is unacceptable to me is having thesame problems crop up - bad perimeter defense, bad rebounding and terrible help defense over and over again.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    One month in and the bus is warmed up, people are stretching and DeMar and Sonny are on standby. I was expecting this to happen at least a month later.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      DirtyMikeSeaver wrote: View Post
                      I think the problem is that we're asking 2 players that are under 25 that haven't played 2 full seasons in the league who have never started on the NBA level to give a consistent effort against teams that more often than not have bonafide NBA starters.

                      The "dirty little secret" about the Raptors is that their Shooting Guard/Small Forward position has be WOEFUL over the past 5 years (that why I laugh whenever someone on the Raptors, be it the coaching staff or broadcasting team takes a shot at Chris Bosh because he couldn't be a 'franchise player' with the likes of Joey Graham, Jamario Moon and Fred Jones). Weems and DeRozan right now aren't great, there's no doubt about that, but these are the growing pains that you have when you go with young players. It's on the coaching staff now to guide these guys and make them play within themselves. The NBA is littered with guys who people gave up on that turned out okay (Joe Johnson, Chauncey Billups) or guys that struggled at the beginning that blossomed (Tracy McGrady, John Salmons).

                      Oh BTW, I know PER and Value Added isn't everything, but despite their troubles, both have PERs and VAs that are higher than James Harden, OJ Mayo, Kirk Hinrich and Evan Turner (who was the No. 2 Overall pick). And Weems has a better PER than Rudy Fernandez. So let's not go TOO crazy with this. Remember, this is a bad team where their best player is the 7 foot tall Italian Ben Gordon
                      +1

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Thom wrote: View Post
                        It seems like Weems has a lot of game, but can't utilize it, while DeRozan has a little game, but makes the most of it. I think DeMar will continue to improve his game and end up being a good rotation player, possibly a starter on a good team someday.
                        I agree.

                        Mostly I think it is growing pains for deRozen. Weems has all kinds of ability but is not a quick learner.

                        There have been a couple of real stinkers by Weems this year where he looks like a 2nd rounder. The problem is Kleiza cant defend and isn't pushing for their minutes - but Bayless has been closing games in weems spot lately .... he is pushing hard for more PT.
                        "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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                        • #27
                          smushmush wrote: View Post
                          +1 about Derozan shooting 200 jumpshots from 15 feet after practice. Evidence - Shannon Brown was all athlete little basketball player a la Demar but he put in work over the summer shooting jumpers and there is an improvement in his jumpshots this season for the Lakers.
                          He is my favorite Lakers player next to Kobe of course.

                          I am lovin it

                          People who don't follow the Lakers or Kobe might think that because he scores so much is a naturally gifted shooter. Nothing could be further from the truth.

                          He has to constantly work on his shot in practice to keep his shooting mechanics working properly.

                          He quite regularly during a season will go into a shooting slump. You can tell when this is happening because his jump shot flattens out.

                          So what does he do when this happens. He gets in ass in the gym even if is on game day and shoots jumpers for an hour or two to get his mechanics back in place.

                          He does this whenever he has to despite all the NBA rings that he has.

                          If DeMar ever shows half the work ethic of Kobe the Raptors will benefit significantly as a result of that effort.
                          Last edited by Buddahfan; Wed Dec 8, 2010, 11:22 AM.
                          Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

                          Memories some so sweet, indeed

                          Larger Photo of the avatar



                          Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I'm on the fence about Weems/ Derozan, both are athletic freaks, but haven't shown much besides that. Weems play hard and shows that he could defend, but he's shot is too inconsistent and he takes questionable shots. DD, he's got great athletic ability, and Raps drafted him on the account that he's athletic and plays good defense, to date there haven't not been any indication that he's a good defensive player.

                            I know the word most commonly associated with these two players are potential, therefore we should wait for them to develop and I'm all for it, but they haven't shown much. A good sign of player we could develop is player who produces given the opportunity, few good example would be; Paul Milsap, Darren Collison, Raptors Jerryd Bayless, and this year's Jodie meeks. All these players have shown they can play given the opportunity, and they have sustain the level of play. Weems/ DD have been given the playing time, but have yet to show us any indication that they will be good players down the road, perhaps its too early to crown them the future of our "core".
                            Last edited by bigmanshaq; Wed Dec 8, 2010, 01:12 PM.

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                            • #29
                              I said this midway through last season that if Demar puts in the work he will be a great player. He's got a lot of upside but he needs to work hard. Maybe it's time Sonny got shipped off so Demar focuses on his game a little more.

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                              • #30
                                I give them time, I think we are all a little shaken up after we had a little 'playoff run'. But this is the team we currently are, we are not a 40 win team (although we could win 40) and I think most of us have our hopes set a little too high. These guys are extremely young, and they are athletic so they can improve. I think ALL the Raptor players will go through a stage in the season where they suck so terribly we would trade for Jerome James 4 years ago.

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