It doesn't look good for the next 2 weeks, will Triano job be in jeopardy

[Hotshot]

With the rash of injuries and lackluster play in the past month which saw the Raptors only win 2 games out of 11, the next little while doesn't look promising either:

Dec 28 - Dallas (away)
Dec 31 - Houston (away)
Jan. 2 - Boston (home)
Jan. 4 - Chicago (away)
Jan. 5 - Cleveland (away)
Jan. 7 - Boston (away)

Now for those looking for a possible wins against some of the weaker opponants, Houston is 9-4 at home and the Raptors won't have Bargnani. The Cleveland game is the most ideal place to grab a W, however it is on a back to back and also an away game so it will be difficult.

They could very well be a situation where the Raptors lose all those games and the record will indicate only 2 wins in their last 17 games. Is that enough to heat the chair under Triano or will Colangelo look the other way?!

[mcHAPPY]

With the rash of injuries and lackluster play in the past month which saw the Raptors only win 2 games out of 11, the next little while doesn't look promising either:

Dec 28 - Dallas (away)
Dec 31 - Houston (away)
Jan. 2 - Boston (home)
Jan. 4 - Chicago (away)
Jan. 5 - Cleveland (away)
Jan. 7 - Boston (away)

Now for those looking for a possible wins against some of the weaker opponants, Houston is 9-4 at home and the Raptors won't have Bargnani. The Cleveland game is the most ideal place to grab a W, however it is on a back to back and also an away game so it will be difficult.

They could very well be a situation where the Raptors lose all those games and the record will indicate only 2 wins in their last 17 games. Is that enough to heat the chair under Triano or will Colangelo look the other way?!

If the only 2 wins in 17 games plays out and he is not fired, it will be a clear indication to anyone following the team this is rebuild mode and management doesn't really care about the record this year and are playing for a draft pick. The danger is cultivating an acceptance of losing, however, I think it would guarantee Triano does not return next year.

What would piss me off more than going 2-15 is if the games continue as they have been the last 2. The game against DET and MEM were farces. No real determined effort, literally giving the game away via turnovers, and no organization or flow on offense. There have been a number of loses this year that were inexcusable due to lack of effort (WSH, ATL, IND, DET, MEM). These games are piling up. Also there have been a number of games where games were win-able but let them slip. On the flip side there have been a number of games they had no business being in let alone winning. The problem has been inconsistency.

Effort by the players should determine JT's fate. A coach can take a team from the bottom to the top (like Woodson in ATL) over a span of 4 seasons but the players need to show improvement each year and a consistent full effort and the coach needs to show his system/coaching is right for the team. Management also needs to ensure better players are coming in each year.

[JoePanini]

That's an ugly stretch. Let's hope to surprise these teams, who probably overlook us.

[smushmush]

If the only 2 wins in 17 games plays out and he is not fired, it will be a clear indication to anyone following the team this is rebuild mode and management doesn't really care about the record this year and are playing for a draft pick. The danger is cultivating an acceptance of losing, however, I think it would guarantee Triano does not return next year.

What would piss me off more than going 2-15 is if the games continue as they have been the last 2. The game against DET and MEM were farces. No real determined effort, literally giving the game away via turnovers, and no organization or flow on offense. There have been a number of loses this year that were inexcusable due to lack of effort (WSH, ATL, IND, DET, MEM). These games are piling up. Also there have been a number of games where games were win-able but let them slip. On the flip side there have been a number of games they had no business being in let alone winning. The problem has been inconsistency.

Effort by the players should determine JT's fate. A coach can take a team from the bottom to the top (like Woodson in ATL) over a span of 4 seasons but the players need to show improvement each year and a consistent full effort and the coach needs to show his system/coaching is right for the team. Management also needs to ensure better players are coming in each year.

If I'm BC, what determines Jay triano's fate is whether the team improves defensively(an increase of 6 spots in 2 months or increase of 2-3 spots over this stretch) and cuts on their turnovers. Once I see that the team does not improve in these areas, Jay Triano is gone. Rebuilding should be done the right way and not by cultivating a culture of losing in festering an atmosphere of no accountabilty, no defense, no effort and taking plays off on both sides of the floor.

[mcHAPPY]

Rebuilding should be done the right way and not by cultivating a culture of losing in festering an atmosphere of no accountabilty, no defense, no effort and taking plays off on both sides of the floor.

+ a lot

[Legalize-It]

what is jay supposed to do ? he has a centre that gets outmuscled by nate robinson...

he has wing players who cant stay in front of their man

he has a pg who is great at one thing and that's the pick and roll... once team's shut that down, it's over...

he cant even run post plays, cuz bargs refuses to go near the paint, and no one else can post up...

what would firing jay do ?

and the next coach will have the same problem...

that problem being bargs must get 36 mins a nite and you cant push bargs to play harder or bench him or else you like smitch will be gone.

[JoePanini]

what is jay supposed to do ? he has a centre that gets outmuscled by nate robinson...

he has wing players who cant stay in front of their man

he has a pg who is great at one thing and that's the pick and roll... once team's shut that down, it's over...

he cant even run post plays, cuz bargs refuses to go near the paint, and no one else can post up...

what would firing jay do ?

and the next coach will have the same problem...

that problem being bargs must get 36 mins a nite and you cant push bargs to play harder or bench him or else you like smitch will be gone.

yes, I don't think you've been watching many Raptor games this year...

[mcHAPPY]

what is jay supposed to do ? he has a centre that gets outmuscled by nate robinson...

he has wing players who cant stay in front of their man

he has a pg who is great at one thing and that's the pick and roll... once team's shut that down, it's over...

he cant even run post plays, cuz bargs refuses to go near the paint, and no one else can post up...

what would firing jay do ?

and the next coach will have the same problem...

that problem being bargs must get 36 mins a nite and you cant push bargs to play harder or bench him or else you like smitch will be gone.

There are some good points in there. This is why a re-build takes time. If OKC is the blueprint, the Raptors are at the start of season 3 of 5. HOpefully they get some top 5 draft picks the next 2 seasons.

[brakeman1]

I don't think Jay is to blame for this mess. Its not like he can hold someone accountable and bench them when the player behind them in the rotation is no better. Jay Triano all of a sudden didn't forget how to coach. Ask USA basketball.

[Legalize-It]

There are some good points in there. This is why a re-build takes time. If OKC is the blueprint, the Raptors are at the start of season 3 of 5. HOpefully they get some top 5 draft picks the next 2 seasons.

that's the thing tho, it's unlikely we get any top 5 picks, when BC goes out and signs people like kleiza, or tries to get boris diaw and matt barnes...

his ability to patch up holes prevents the team from getting top 5 picks...

i like amir, but why sign him when you just drafted ed davis...

why isnt ed davis getting 30 mins a game ? why not run more plays for demar ?

we are guaranteed mediocrity when you patch up holes instead of actually rebuilding the foundation.

[WJF]

I guess this win vs. Dallas helps JT out big time....not that I thought he was in any trouble to begin with.

[mcHAPPY]

that's the thing tho, it's unlikely we get any top 5 picks, when BC goes out and signs people like kleiza, or tries to get boris diaw and matt barnes...

his ability to patch up holes prevents the team from getting top 5 picks...

i like amir, but why sign him when you just drafted ed davis...

why isnt ed davis getting 30 mins a game ? why not run more plays for demar ?

we are guaranteed mediocrity when you patch up holes instead of actually rebuilding the foundation.

When the Bobcats trade was occurring, IMO BC was still operating under make the playoffs etc. etc. When that trade did not go down, I think it took a couple of weeks, but BC finally conceded re-tool, re-build, whatever you, me, or he wants to call it.

Despite the impressive showing last night vs DAL, I think this team is more than capable of a top 5 pick. If they can't get one, how bad does a team have to be to get one? Also, there is no guarantee getting a top 5 pick improves the team - look at PHI, WSH, NJ, SAC. Personally, I'd rather be in the Raptors situation versus all of them - except possibly NJ because of the picks, cap space, and couple of pieces they do have (although that Travis Outlaw contract is ridiculous - makes Amir look almost really good).

I agree with the Ed Davis comment but patience is needed. He came off a long lay off with a broken wrist, played summer league, busted his knee, missed training camp and the first 15/16 games of the season. Overplaying at this stage might not be good for his health or development/confidence. Last night he did play 31 - hopefully it is a start of 25-30 mins a night.

I think where we disagree is on the signings and total tear down of the team. I don't mind the signings because, while the guys aren't starters, they are good role players to have on a team. This team has the depth but not the stars to go in front of them. This is why I think, again only my opinion, the re-build/re-tool won't go on for years. To totally rip the team apart would not guarantee future superstars and would take much longer to become relevant.

[mcHAPPY]

Triano has to be given credit for his coaching last night. He had the team ready to perform from the beginning and overcame adversity throughout the game to keep the team in a position to win - and they did. Certainly a character win. It would be nice to see this type of effort against the MEM's and DET's of the league.

[MangoKid]

Triano's job is to just teach. This season is a learning one. If we can get some wins out of it, that would be fantastic, but the idea of this season is for the young guys to get some playing time and to grow and develop as they learn the ins and outs.
Even if the Raps lost every game for the next two weeks, Triano wouldn't lose his job.

[sillydebate]

Fully agree with MangoKid's comments. Jay is doing a good job teaching these guys. You cannot lose your job to a tough schedule and a lengthy injured list. He's making the best of the situation and the players gave him something that he can refer to on a regular basis for the rest of the season. When the effort is there, these guys can do special things out there. They've had some big surprise wins already and there are a lot of young guys getting put into situations they've never been in before. I have a feeling that this year is going to look a lot like 2008-09 where there is a surge of optimism as the season progresses and performances like last nights become more consistent and successful. Keep things steady for the time being. There's not reason to panic.