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  • #16
    sillydebate wrote: View Post
    No point in this. Jose is outplaying Bibby right now. End this discussion.
    sillydebate pointing out the silly debate. awesome.

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    • #17
      I'd do it if it were Bargnani and Josh Smith as the bigs being swapped. In a heartbeat. Though I feel Calderon has a lot more left in his tank than Bibby does. Just sayin.
      The Double Champ is here!
      Dynasty King: RRNBADLS7
      Raptors: Larry O'Brien

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      • #18
        Apollo wrote: View Post
        Zaza and Bargnani starting together would only work if Davis or Johnson were starting at the 3 and if that were to happen the team would need a strong ball handler starting at the 2. I think Zaza starting with Bargnani would cause too big of a shake up. It's more likely that he would be a bench player in Toronto.



        We're talking a $3.5M saving next season and $10.5M the following season at the PG spot. $14M.



        I think its more a matter of Jose getting more opportunity. You stick Jose with Joe Johnson and you would see him struggle to adapt.
        THe savings is a lot less if zaza is coming back, his contract is for 3 yrs as well. at like 4-5 mil per

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        • #19
          tbihis wrote: View Post
          Bibby is old and Zaza is a 6'11" center with an average of 4rebs per game.
          No thanks.
          do you even do research before you start posting? :S cmon man!!!

          Yes he gets for rebounds per game but he does it in 13 mins... yaaaaaaaaa now u get it

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          • #20
            Apollo wrote: View Post
            Bibby has been in the league a long time and has had a far better career than Jose Calderon. You should know exactly what you're getting with Mike Bibby. Bibby has fit well in Atlanta for years now as a role player. Many of those years were a situation somewhat similar to where the Raptors are now, that being a team with many young players who need guidance and leadership both on and off the court. Bibby has done well in Atlanta and I don't understand how he could have created any doubt there. The main reason his numbers(assists and points) have fallen is because he's playing with an All-Star SG who dominates the ball. He's still productive and embraced his reduced role very admirably.
            i think the key word is HAD. true, he did come into a young atlanta team and posted good numbers, but that was 4 years ago, when he was still 28. he was able to run with the young players back then and mentor them at the same time. but now, if you put him in the same situation as when he first came to atlanta, i dont think he'll have the same impact. basically, calderon with the young raps is what bibby was with the young atlanta team, running with them and getting those asts.

            i think his numbers are down because he's getting old and slowing down, which is the natural progression of a player's career. cant be because he's playing alongside JJ, he's always played alongside JJ since he came to atlanta. his stats are steadily declining, maybe because crawford is getting more playing time too and theyre using JJ as a PG sometimes, but the coach sees it, he cant run with the best of them anymore because of his age, and possibly the injuries he had before are taking its toll.

            pachulia, 0.5 career shot blocker with 5 rebs per 15mins. decent. maybe he'll get more rebs and blocks if he gets to play 20-25 minutes which he'll probably get with the raps. i like his toughness, not backing down from KG and all that.
            Last edited by TheGloveinRapsUniform; Thu Jan 6, 2011, 01:54 PM.

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            • #21
              pesterm1 wrote: View Post
              do you even do research before you start posting? :S cmon man!!!

              Yes he gets for rebounds per game but he does it in 13 mins... yaaaaaaaaa now u get it
              i know. mah bad.
              but thats probably the only playing time he'll get in toronto, unless bargs shifts to PF.

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              • #22
                i can see BC being interested in williams, though i'm not entirely sure. he's still young, and has, i guess, some upside, but at this point, he is what he is. mediocre. can't see how he improves them now, or down the road.

                bibby would be a stop-gap & only acquired to get out from jose's contract, but at this point, unless they have some grand scheme to bring in another point over the next year, i'm not sure i understand the rationale of acquiring a shoot-first PG who's become accustomed to playing with a ball-dominating SG, when what the raptors need is a guy who's adept at distributing & creating for others (since there are so few raptors who currently have the ability to create something out of nothing).

                but williams isn't a 'big,' and if the rumour is to be believed, it would be a big from each team involved. if jose & bibby are definites, then to make the $ work, it would almost have to be some combination of guys that appollo pointed out above, most likely zaza & dorsey.
                TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.

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                • #23
                  Looking at the salaries and all I am thinking the best way for this trade to go down is for BC to get Atlanta down to a trade of:

                  Calderon & cash
                  FOR
                  Bibby, M. Evans and 1st*


                  * could get cute here and make it a conditional 1st wherein the Raps have the choice to trade up their Miami pick from this year (which would be a jump from 28th to 21st as of now) plus a 2nd in 2011 OR take Atlanta's 1st in 2012

                  Not a huge fan of Zaza or Williams and so I would hate to see the Raps lose Dorsey or Wright because the Raps have to put in some filler (rather see Weems or Alabi go). The above trade is much better for the team overall imo.

                  In terms of Zaza being included: Raps wouldn't actually need to provide filler and the upside to a trade that did involve Zaza is that Bibby and Zaza are MUCH easier to trade than Calderon. Calderon and Alabi would work just FINE for me.

                  In terms of Williams being included: this would be a disaster in my mind as I don't see Wright as being much worse AND all the future trade goodness that comes from getting rid of a big contract like Calderon's is lost with the pick-up of Williams.

                  For Toronto: Bibby's contract represents big savings compared to Calderon's and Evans is another expiring. Also, as mentioned, Bibby is MUCH easier to trade nearer the deadline.

                  For Atlanta: Calderon is a better player than Bibby at this point and he extends their competitive window of opportunity.

                  For me: What I want doesn't matter but I do not want to see Dorsey or Wright traded from this team. Just don't. Not a huge fan of Zaza but he is a cheap big and that has some value for trade.

                  Finally - the trading of Calderon is problematic as his contract is huge and a lot of teams have a great Pg situation going so getting rid of Calderon's big contract is just too important to this team. If there is a trade here, excepting the whole Williams thing, the Raps should make it happen.

                  Edit to add: If the trade I propose went down there may be a side advantage here in that the Raps, with Alabi and an extra 1st available, could become major facilitators in a Melo to the Nets trade (given the Ujiri/Alabi link and the desire of the Nuggets for 1st round picks) - this could also happen in a Zaza trade as the Nuggets could get back an actual player who is on a cheap salary (in Zaza)
                  Last edited by YKOil; Thu Jan 6, 2011, 02:37 PM. Reason: adding Alabi and 1st point

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                  • #24
                    Then again, a Bibby-Jamal Crawford for Evans-Calderon also works.

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                    • #25
                      I'm all for Pachulia because I love the kid's game. He doesn't take any shit from anyone, he can board, he has a decent post game (not fantastic by any means, but solid) and he plays hard tough D - which can get him into trouble from time to time because it leads him to be foul prone. The one thing he could do better that he isn't is that he's not a good shot blocker. But hey, for 4.5 mil a season, you could do a lot worse than Pachulia. Those who cry for Toronto needing an enforcer, a throwback to the days of Charles Oakley would love Pachulia.

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                      • #26
                        YKOil wrote: View Post
                        Looking at the salaries and all I am thinking the best way for this trade to go down is for BC to get Atlanta down to a trade of:

                        Calderon & cash
                        FOR
                        Bibby, M. Evans and 1st*


                        * could get cute here and make it a conditional 1st wherein the Raps have the choice to trade up their Miami pick from this year (which would be a jump from 28th to 21st as of now) plus a 2nd in 2011 OR take Atlanta's 1st in 2012

                        Not a huge fan of Zaza or Williams and so I would hate to see the Raps lose Dorsey or Wright because the Raps have to put in some filler (rather see Weems or Alabi go). The above trade is much better for the team overall imo.

                        In terms of Zaza being included: Raps wouldn't actually need to provide filler and the upside to a trade that did involve Zaza is that Bibby and Zaza are MUCH easier to trade than Calderon. Calderon and Alabi would work just FINE for me.

                        In terms of Williams being included: this would be a disaster in my mind as I don't see Wright as being much worse AND all the future trade goodness that comes from getting rid of a big contract like Calderon's is lost with the pick-up of Williams.

                        For Toronto: Bibby's contract represents big savings compared to Calderon's and Evans is another expiring. Also, as mentioned, Bibby is MUCH easier to trade nearer the deadline.

                        For Atlanta: Calderon is a better player than Bibby at this point and he extends their competitive window of opportunity.

                        For me: What I want doesn't matter but I do not want to see Dorsey or Wright traded from this team. Just don't. Not a huge fan of Zaza but he is a cheap big and that has some value for trade.

                        Finally - the trading of Calderon is problematic as his contract is huge and a lot of teams have a great Pg situation going so getting rid of Calderon's big contract is just too important to this team. If there is a trade here, excepting the whole Williams thing, the Raps should make it happen.

                        Edit to add: If the trade I propose went down there may be a side advantage here in that the Raps, with Alabi and an extra 1st available, could become major facilitators in a Melo to the Nets trade (given the Ujiri/Alabi link and the desire of the Nuggets for 1st round picks) - this could also happen in a Zaza trade as the Nuggets could get back an actual player who is on a cheap salary (in Zaza)
                        I would take etan thomas he is a hustle player out of all the centers they have.

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                        • #27
                          I love Zaza, but question whether we want to take away minutes from Davis and Johnson. Mind you, Zaza's a baller.

                          No to Bibby, JE Skeets might kill himself. Besides, the last time Bibby came to Canada, we lost a franchise...
                          "Come back, Lisa, you little love killer...Come back Lisa, Lisa Lisamiller."
                          -Newsradio

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                          • #28
                            Rediculious why would we get rid of a pg Calderon who is playing very well at the present (not good on defense) for a washed up pg like Bibby and Zaza come on surely we can do better on a big man then that. In this trade the team that benefits the most is Atlanta by far. We are sitting good with our expiring contracts, our 12.5 million from the trade with Bosh and also 15 million especially with peja when it expires or we trade him in Feb. We are looking not to bad so lets not settle on garbage that Atlanta wants to send out to the trash that being the Raptors! Surely BC has more brains then that to settle on someone elses garbage! Also why would we consider getting rid of Julian Wright now as well he is playing great on defense and he himselfe I believe turned the Cleveland game around when he came into the game giving us defense and also scoring!! To the above I say why, why why!!!

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                            • #29
                              Here's what should happen:

                              Calderon and Bargnani for Bibby and Josh Smith.

                              Basically, it's a move on Atlanta's part for Bargnani, who can help them score and start at the 5, which allows Horford to move to his natural 4 spot. Horford/Bargs = one of best interior combos in the league.

                              T.O. then swaps Peja for Dalemebert.

                              Bayless/Bibby
                              Derozan/Barbosa
                              Kleiza/Weems
                              Smith/Davis
                              Dalembert/Johnson

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                              • #30
                                I say if we can shorten some contracts we do it. Bibby at his age is not a huge drop from Jose which tells you a lot about just how good/bad Jose is. Dorsey or Alabi I could not care less about.. if it's Weems, even better because then you have less worry of Colangelo signing him in the offseason to a Kapono/Hedo/Amir-type contract.

                                I'll take Zaza back because his contract is small and there are minimal increases in the following years, which can't be said for Marvin.
                                your pal,
                                ebrian

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