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  • #31
    Otherwise I wouldn't do it. Doesn't make the Raps that much better, unless, as it seems may always the case with BC, this would be a move that makes future moves easier/gathers more tradeable pieces. Other than being taller, Pachulia doesn't bring anything that Dorsey doesn't already. Marvin Williams' contract is far too large. Rather take my chances with Kleiza and Weems.

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    • #32
      can we please stop with the inclusion of jsmoove and bargs in the trade equation?
      the rumor was Bibby + big for Calderon + big, eventhough both bargs and smith are bigs, they wouldnt be referred to as just "bigs" in rumors, im pretty sure their names will be highlighted, no doubt.

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      • #33
        tbihis wrote: View Post
        i think the key word is HAD. true, he did come into a young atlanta team and posted good numbers, but that was 4 years ago, when he was still 28. he was able to run with the young players back then and mentor them at the same time. but now, if you put him in the same situation as when he first came to atlanta, i dont think he'll have the same impact. basically, calderon with the young raps is what bibby was with the young atlanta team, running with them and getting those asts.

        i think his numbers are down because he's getting old and slowing down, which is the natural progression of a player's career. cant be because he's playing alongside JJ, he's always played alongside JJ since he came to atlanta. his stats are steadily declining, maybe because crawford is getting more playing time too and theyre using JJ as a PG sometimes, but the coach sees it, he cant run with the best of them anymore because of his age, and possibly the injuries he had before are taking its toll.

        pachulia, 0.5 career shot blocker with 5 rebs per 15mins. decent. maybe he'll get more rebs and blocks if he gets to play 20-25 minutes which he'll probably get with the raps. i like his toughness, not backing down from KG and all that.
        tbihis, you're missing something vital here. There would be no chance in hell that the Raptors could land a 28 year old Mike Bibby for Calderon and junk. Of course he isn't the same player he was four years ago but he has not regressed that much and he's on the same level as Calderon. Calderon in his prime is no where close to the player Bibby was in his prime and you can't quantify that on a box score.

        I don't think I'm going to change your opinion but I'm telling you Joe Johnson dominates the ball and Bibby is usually the fifth scoring option on the floor. The skills are there, the role is different. Calderon couldn't hack sharing responsibilities with Hedo Turkoglu, let alone getting his wings clipped by playing with Joe Johnson. You place Calderon on that Hawks team and his stats would plummet, book it.

        YKOil wrote: View Post
        Calderon & cash
        FOR
        Bibby, M. Evans and 1st*
        The Hawks would be crazy to do that. You are overvaluing Jose "The Matador" Calderon. The guy can't guard his own shadow and the whole league knows it.

        MangoKid wrote: View Post
        Then again, a Bibby-Jamal Crawford for Evans-Calderon also works.
        Sign me up but I don't think the Hawks want to give up their top bench scoring punch for that.

        yertu damkule wrote: View Post
        but williams isn't a 'big,' and if the rumour is to be believed, it would be a big from each team involved. if jose & bibby are definites, then to make the $ work, it would almost have to be some combination of guys that appollo pointed out above, most likely zaza & dorsey.
        6'8", 245lbs is not classified as a big man? Marvin Williams is as big as Antonio Davis, he just happens to play SF more than PF because of the team depth and his diverse skill set.
        Last edited by Apollo; Thu Jan 6, 2011, 06:01 PM.

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        • #34
          man... my heart skipped when i though al horford mite be involved... guess i was being dumb. But still isn't maybe possible, if horford said he won't sign with them or somthing... im juss sayin off course 0_0, since his contract is almost up, and atlanta juss seems stuck in the middle of the eastern conference and doesnt seem to be gettin bttr

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          • #35
            personally I think Dorsey could do very well on Atlanta in a a backup role to horford. He just has to go in grab boards, make put backs and hustle. I think Zaza would be a good pick up. He is similar to the type of player varejao is. He will go out and hustle, be a troll in the paint, grab boards, get putbacks, alter shots, intimidate players the easily penetrate. He might be raptors anchor. You gotta love players that come into a game and instantly make others better just because they play with swagger.
            Last edited by pesterm1; Thu Jan 6, 2011, 06:35 PM.

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            • #36
              Jeff, all i gotta say is "BLEH !" man that looks worse then what we have right now .... as good as Jsmith is that dudes a f'n cry baby, i dont want another dude with a f'd up ego.

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              • #37
                jeff_hostetler wrote: View Post
                Otherwise I wouldn't do it. Doesn't make the Raps that much better, unless, as it seems may always the case with BC, this would be a move that makes future moves easier/gathers more tradeable pieces. Other than being taller, Pachulia doesn't bring anything that Dorsey doesn't already. Marvin Williams' contract is far too large. Rather take my chances with Kleiza and Weems.
                Bargnani is having his best season, theres no way BC trades him now , you guys are dreaming.

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                • #38
                  yertu damkule wrote: View Post
                  i can see BC being interested in williams, though i'm not entirely sure. he's still young, and has, i guess, some upside, but at this point, he is what he is. mediocre. can't see how he improves them now, or down the road.but williams isn't a 'big,' and if the rumour is to be believed, it would be a big from each team involved. if jose & bibby are definites, then to make the $ work, it would almost have to be some combination of guys that appollo pointed out above, most likely zaza & dorsey.
                  Williams would be great on the raptors, i think the only reason he isnt better on the hawks is once again because of Joe HJohnson and Jamal crawford. If williams was on the raps u can garuntee he gets playing time and lots of touches.

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                  • #39
                    jeff_hostetler wrote: View Post
                    Here's what should happen:

                    Calderon and Bargnani for Bibby and Josh Smith.

                    Basically, it's a move on Atlanta's part for Bargnani, who can help them score and start at the 5, which allows Horford to move to his natural 4 spot. Horford/Bargs = one of best interior combos in the league.

                    T.O. then swaps Peja for Dalemebert.

                    Bayless/Bibby
                    Derozan/Barbosa
                    Kleiza/Weems
                    Smith/Davis
                    Dalembert/Johnson
                    Atlanta would be extremely retarded to make that trade. No way in hell they would trade anything involving Josh Smith. Horford and Josh Smith both smartly and athletically hunt down rebounds with great hunger, that trade will just kill the Hawk's defense and rebounding and shot-blocking. Let the Dalemdert trade happen because it will piss off Leo Rautins and anything bad happening to Leo Rautins is a win for Canada basketball.

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                    • #40
                      In this proposed deal, the Raptors would add 2 rotational players for Calderon. In a new CBA with a projected lower salary cap and a possibility of a hard cap, this would be a good thing. It does add $1.4M in salary for next season but it saves $5.2M in salary for 2012-13. As is, I'm not sure I'd do this trade. If ATL threw in a 1st round pick in exchange for a future 2nd, I'm all over it.

                      One thing that might be wise to do when looking at Zaza's stats would be to look pre-2007-08 otherwise known as pre-Al Horford. I think this trade would tell all that Bargnani, Davis, and Johnson are the future front court of the team. That might not be a bad thing considering the potential Davis has shown to rebound and alter shots. IMO, as of now, longer term I see Davis starting and Johnson first big off the bench.

                      Also, having a capable 6'11", 275lbs on a $5M a year contract is not bad trade bait either. Teams are always looking for big men.

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                      • #41
                        jeff_hostetler wrote: View Post
                        Here's what should happen:

                        Calderon and Bargnani for Bibby and Josh Smith.

                        Basically, it's a move on Atlanta's part for Bargnani, who can help them score and start at the 5, which allows Horford to move to his natural 4 spot. Horford/Bargs = one of best interior combos in the league.

                        T.O. then swaps Peja for Dalemebert.

                        Bayless/Bibby
                        Derozan/Barbosa
                        Kleiza/Weems
                        Smith/Davis
                        Dalembert/Johnson
                        Man's allowed to dream right? If Dalembert trade happens along with Bargs shipped out of town for Smith, we immediately lower our Points Against to less than 100 ppg. If it does happen, Bryan is the next name of my kid (if it happens to be a boy!).

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                        • #42
                          jeff_hostetler wrote: View Post
                          Here's what should happen:

                          Calderon and Bargnani for Bibby and Josh Smith.

                          Basically, it's a move on Atlanta's part for Bargnani, who can help them score and start at the 5, which allows Horford to move to his natural 4 spot. Horford/Bargs = one of best interior combos in the league.

                          T.O. then swaps Peja for Dalemebert.

                          Bayless/Bibby
                          Derozan/Barbosa
                          Kleiza/Weems
                          Smith/Davis
                          Dalembert/Johnson
                          i'm usually of the mindset of "trading your best offensive player when the rest of your team doesnt have detroit pistons circa 2004 type defense is just plain retarded"... but that's not a bad lineup at all..

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                          • #43
                            Amidst all the conjecture I believe Zaza is at least a Gortat lite if not very similar except that Gortat has better agility. He is being under utilized with Horford taking the major mins.

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                            • #44
                              I like Zaza. My only fear is we may be trading a young big. I also can live with Bibby starting for us. Mainly because of the guy who would be backing him up.

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                              • #45
                                Calderon and Johnson for Smith and Bibby
                                Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

                                Memories some so sweet, indeed

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                                Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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