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Why do the Raptors suck?

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  • #31
    Inexperience (both players and coaches), lack of commitment to defense (both players and coaches), and confidence.
    Joshua Priemski
    NBA blogger
    SB Nation's Rufus on Fire
    www.RufusOnFire.com/
    www.twitter.com/HoopPlusTheHarm/

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    • #32
      smushmush wrote: View Post
      And what have they won in the post-season? Nothing. nada. lol. I laugh when people point to the Phoenix Suns. I can bet that if those Phoenix teams had some defence, Steve Nash would have had a ring instead of riding into the sunset, a ringless(lol) hall-of-famer.
      "The defense wins championships" saying holds true but how much d do you need in a game where the object is to outscore your opponent. 2 examples:
      1) the Kevin oneill raptors shut teams down, slowed the pace to a crawl and kept the score freakishly low. Only problem is they couldn't score. Tired players who had no offensive system to run relied on one on One bs. They weren't even sniffing the playoffs.

      2) Showtime lakers. They weren't called showtime cuz they were lock down defenders. They played enough d to win but they were mostly an offensive team.

      The last point I'd make in response to your comment is that you can also argue that if Joe Johnson hadn't broken his face, if amares knees had held up, if players hadn't left the bench then the suns could have easily won a ring or two. Besides what have the raps ever done to be dissing the suns (deep Playoff runs every year, western conference finalists, legit contenders vs 1 playoff series won in 16 years).
      LET'S GO RAP-TORS!!!!!

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      • #33
        minks77 wrote: View Post
        "The defense wins championships" saying holds true but how much d do you need in a game where the object is to outscore your opponent. 2 examples:
        1) the Kevin oneill raptors shut teams down, slowed the pace to a crawl and kept the score freakishly low. Only problem is they couldn't score. Tired players who had no offensive system to run relied on one on One bs. They weren't even sniffing the playoffs.

        2) Showtime lakers. They weren't called showtime cuz they were lock down defenders. They played enough d to win but they were mostly an offensive team.

        The last point I'd make in response to your comment is that you can also argue that if Joe Johnson hadn't broken his face, if amares knees had held up, if players hadn't left the bench then the suns could have easily won a ring or two. Besides what have the raps ever done to be dissing the suns (deep Playoff runs every year, western conference finalists, legit contenders vs 1 playoff series won in 16 years).
        Ding! Ding! Ding!
        Nailed it. Wouldn't even try to say it any better myself.

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        • #34
          joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
          Ding! Ding! Ding!
          Nailed it. Wouldn't even try to say it any better myself.
          minks77 wrote: View Post
          "The defense wins championships" saying holds true but how much d do you need in a game where the object is to outscore your opponent. 2 examples:
          1) the Kevin oneill raptors shut teams down, slowed the pace to a crawl and kept the score freakishly low. Only problem is they couldn't score. Tired players who had no offensive system to run relied on one on One bs. They weren't even sniffing the playoffs.

          2) Showtime lakers. They weren't called showtime cuz they were lock down defenders. They played enough d to win but they were mostly an offensive team.

          The last point I'd make in response to your comment is that you can also argue that if Joe Johnson hadn't broken his face, if amares knees had held up, if players hadn't left the bench then the suns could have easily won a ring or two. Besides what have the raps ever done to be dissing the suns (deep Playoff runs every year, western conference finalists, legit contenders vs 1 playoff series won in 16 years).
          ***. Three examples:-

          1.2008 Celtics. They had a suffocating defense, average offense, below average rebounding against an offensively talented Kobe Bryant and the Lakers with a soft interior defender at the time in Pau Gasol and no Andrew Bynum(who still has a glass body). Guess who won?(The answer is obvious - the Lakers were blown out in a blow-out of epic proportions in game 6 and they were offensively talented).

          2.2010 Lakers. They got Artest in the off-season to shore up a good perimeter defense with Kobe Bryant and the shedding of the soft label by Pau Gasol in the previous years` NBA finals.(You can point to the clutch shooting of Artest and the offensive rebounds, but the key in that finals(game 7 specifically) was the lock-down defense on Paul Pierce(who ran riot in multiple games with solid points and assists(which meant he could set up the offense and still score - a double threat that Rondo was not).The resullt of that lockdown defense was the Celtics offense running out of wack with an inconsistent Ray Allen after a record 3 point shooting game 2 performance and no-jumpshot Rondo).

          3.2004 Detroit Pistons. The Pistons were clearly playing against the odds(there was a so called big 3 of Gary Payton, Malone and Shaq and potentially a big 4 in a Kobe Bryant) but they stuck to their defense and executed well on offensive sets. The result - a shocker in the finals.(We all know Larry brown values defense).

          Finally, defense is more about effort(a summary of a Doc Rivers statement) and can`t be taught. Offense can be taught(shot mechanics can be altered, games can be slowed down a la Portland Trailblazers or you can be careful with the ball by committing few turnovers and conceding offensive rebounds(a one and done scheme)).

          Thanks for learning some basketball lessons guys(I don`t comment much but when I see people agreeing with anomalies against the beautiful game of basketball or wearing rose-colored glasses, my opinions have to be made). Besides, I have been a fan of basketball since the last years of MJ dynasty and still watch videos about the golden era of basketball(the late 70s - 80s with a good Trailblazers team, the Celtics, the crazy and emotional rivalry between the Bulls and the Detroit ``Bad Boy`` Pistons, so I can say, I do know much about basketball).

          Finally, I hope you guys like to be Dallas Mavericks or Phoenix Suns fans(since they make the playoffs with a good record every season but continue to choke because they pay no attention to the other side of the basketball called defense). I sure hope not.(Yes, they make the playoffs but make no noise there, sometimes they even get embarassed - remember the Golden State 8th seed shocker and the shockers by lower seeded Spurs in the playoffs?). Fans should demand for contention with the game played the right way(maybe that is why the Toronto sport scene sucks, because fans are okay with an era of medicority by attending the games).

          Comment


          • #35
            smushmush wrote: View Post
            ***. Three examples:-

            1.2008 Celtics. They had a suffocating defense, average offense, below average rebounding against an offensively talented Kobe Bryant and the Lakers with a soft interior defender at the time in Pau Gasol and no Andrew Bynum(who still has a glass body). Guess who won?(The answer is obvious - the Lakers were blown out in a blow-out of epic proportions in game 6 and they were offensively talented).

            2.2010 Lakers. They got Artest in the off-season to shore up a good perimeter defense with Kobe Bryant and the shedding of the soft label by Pau Gasol in the previous years` NBA finals.(You can point to the clutch shooting of Artest and the offensive rebounds, but the key in that finals(game 7 specifically) was the lock-down defense on Paul Pierce(who ran riot in multiple games with solid points and assists(which meant he could set up the offense and still score - a double threat that Rondo was not).The resullt of that lockdown defense was the Celtics offense running out of wack with an inconsistent Ray Allen after a record 3 point shooting game 2 performance and no-jumpshot Rondo).

            3.2004 Detroit Pistons. The Pistons were clearly playing against the odds(there was a so called big 3 of Gary Payton, Malone and Shaq and potentially a big 4 in a Kobe Bryant) but they stuck to their defense and executed well on offensive sets. The result - a shocker in the finals.(We all know Larry brown values defense).

            Finally, defense is more about effort(a summary of a Doc Rivers statement) and can`t be taught. Offense can be taught(shot mechanics can be altered, games can be slowed down a la Portland Trailblazers or you can be careful with the ball by committing few turnovers and conceding offensive rebounds(a one and done scheme)).

            Thanks for learning some basketball lessons guys(I don`t comment much but when I see people agreeing with anomalies against the beautiful game of basketball or wearing rose-colored glasses, my opinions have to be made). Besides, I have been a fan of basketball since the last years of MJ dynasty and still watch videos about the golden era of basketball(the late 70s - 80s with a good Trailblazers team, the Celtics, the crazy and emotional rivalry between the Bulls and the Detroit ``Bad Boy`` Pistons, so I can say, I do know much about basketball).

            Finally, I hope you guys like to be Dallas Mavericks or Phoenix Suns fans(since they make the playoffs with a good record every season but continue to choke because they pay no attention to the other side of the basketball called defense). I sure hope not.(Yes, they make the playoffs but make no noise there, sometimes they even get embarassed - remember the Golden State 8th seed shocker and the shockers by lower seeded Spurs in the playoffs?). Fans should demand for contention with the game played the right way(maybe that is why the Toronto sport scene sucks, because fans are okay with an era of medicority by attending the games).
            Thanks for Teaching us Basketball Lessons smushsmush. I didn't know any of that before. I feel much more educated thanks to you.
            Now the Raptors CAN go out and win a championship.

            You should give Bryan Colangelo a call. He might like to hire you on his consultation staff.

            Comment


            • #36
              minks77 wrote: View Post
              "The defense wins championships" saying holds true but how much d do you need in a game where the object is to outscore your opponent. 2 examples:
              2) Showtime lakers. They weren't called showtime cuz they were lock down defenders. They played enough d to win but they were mostly an offensive team.
              The "Showtime" Lakers were actually an above average defensive team for their era - Kareem, Cooper, Magic, Thompson, Green, Rambis, Scott - could all play defense - even Worthy would have looked like a good defender on today's Raptors. In fact, it was there defense and defensive rebounding that permitted them to get the fast breaks and make them Showtime!

              Comment


              • #37
                black angus wrote: View Post
                The "Showtime" Lakers were actually an above average defensive team for their era - Kareem, Cooper, Magic, Thompson, Green, Rambis, Scott - could all play defense - even Worthy would have looked like a good defender on today's Raptors. In fact, it was there defense and defensive rebounding that permitted them to get the fast breaks and make them Showtime!
                Well any team that wins Championships has to be Above Average. But to say you can't win without having the best in the league, is a little misleading. Jordan's Bulls were 'Above Average' defensively, but they were no way outstanding on the defensive end. Jordan was. The team wasn't.

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                • #38
                  I think we suck this year because we really aren't very talented and many players are inexperienced. We do have heart and most games are entertaining, but we have been outmatched in so many games. Colangelo's got his work cut out, but he has made some solid moves this year and I think we will see better stuff on the court next year. A defensive big and a sf would be a nice start. Shit, take your pick, couldn't every position be upgraded?
                  Never, under any circumstances, take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.

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                  • #39
                    the raps are on pace to be exactly where 90% of us thought they'd be this season.

                    their weaknesses are the exact same weaknesses we all though they had before the season even started.

                    personally, i've been pleasantly surprised they havent sucked more than i thought they were going to suck, and managed to pull off a couple wins i didn't see coming at all

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                    • #40
                      Ruuuuu wrote: View Post
                      LOL at all the responses.... the source of Raps suckiness is certainly one of life's great mysteries

                      Seriously though, I'd say: THEY DONT HAVE A SUPERSTAR PLAYER

                      I saw Chicago beat Boston yesterday. The very same team that just clowned with the Raps on Friday. Boston came out doing the same thing, executing perfectly, etc....but Chicago has Rose who if he puts his mind to it, can get to the line or score anytime he wants. They were able to withstand Boston early surge and eventually pulled away and won.

                      If you have a player like that, you're always going to have at least a good team, and possibly great team.
                      One superstar doesn't make a team.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                        Well any team that wins Championships has to be Above Average. But to say you can't win without having the best in the league, is a little misleading. Jordan's Bulls were 'Above Average' defensively, but they were no way outstanding on the defensive end. Jordan was. The team wasn't.
                        Are you serious? Pippen was't a good defender? Rodman? Horace Grant? Ron Harper?

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                          Well any team that wins Championships has to be Above Average. But to say you can't win without having the best in the league, is a little misleading. Jordan's Bulls were 'Above Average' defensively, but they were no way outstanding on the defensive end. Jordan was. The team wasn't.
                          Sorry, Joey. You got that one wrong.
                          http://www.nba.com/history/awards_defensiveteams.html

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                          • #43
                            MangoKid wrote: View Post
                            One superstar doesn't make a team.
                            In the NBA, yes it does...it all starts from there

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                            • #44
                              Ruuuuu wrote: View Post
                              In the NBA, yes it does...it all starts from there
                              No it doesn't. All those years Garnett in Minnesota and they struggled to make the playoffs. What makes teams successful in the NBA is the supporting cast, and a very good coach not necessarily the superstar.

                              When a team buys into a system, and players play smart ball and play for each other, good things can happen. Look at the Rockets a few years ago. They pushed the Lakers to the brink without Yao or McGrady.
                              Last edited by MangoKid; Mon Jan 10, 2011, 04:37 PM.

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                              • #45
                                MangoKid wrote: View Post
                                No it doesn't. All those years Garnett in Minnesota and they struggled to make the playoffs. What makes teams successful in the NBA is the supporting cast, and a very good coach not necessarily the superstar.
                                I agree totally. How many titles did Ray Ray, Pierce, KG, get before they united? How about Bosh, Lebron, Amare, Carmelo? Hell, what about Karl Malone? Clyde the Glide? Charles Barkley? C Webb? Penny? Etc, etc, etc.

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