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The Truth: Raptors are responsible for Kleiza's injury

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  • #16
    joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Exactly. I'd say Scott McCullough has a very solid reputation around the league as a very reliable trainer. He can't help it if his players are made of glass.
    I wouldn't even go that far about the players.

    Barbosa had a bad wrist injury last season and falls on it early this year. Hamstring pull can happen to anyone.

    Weems bad back - admits to no stretching and preventative stuff.

    Dorsey has sore knees - I guess 265lbs does put pressure on the knees.

    Bargnani strains his achilles - could happen to anyone. Knees are sore - what basketball player doesn't have sore knees at some point?

    Calderon has feet issues - the guy has had many issues, add the feet to the list.

    Bayless rolls his ankle - 3 times in one game, versus NOH if I remember correct.

    Amir has back spasms after getting whacked by Gasol (b@st@rd!). Back spasms are brutal but the key is getting the muscles warm and stretched and then keeping them warm - which appears what Amir/staff did to keep him playing.

    Reggie gets a stress fracture - that might be glass worthy - but again awkward landing = freak injury.

    Davis seems to have been handled perfectly as he continues his rehab playing without a brace now - just the sleeve.

    Comparing Garbo or Hedo is b.s. as well. Garbo, as much as I love him, had a horrific injury and came back way early to play for his national team. Garbo and the Spanish national team are to blame for that situation. He came back injured after the Raps, who hold his contract, asked him not to play, which he did not comply with, of course. Hedo is hardly a reliable source as anyone knows. The fact he got himself in shape 2 years after the signing of his contract is disgusting and speaks to him as a professional basketball player than anything else. He did not have himself physically ready to play basketball at an NBA level during any period of his time in Toronto.

    Kleiza appears to be an extremely unfortunate situation and I hope he addresses it publically sooner rather than later.

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    • #17
      My biggest criticism is that management is allowing to guys play hurt. I don't believe that they were forced to play, I'm just shocked that they are allowed to after expressing pain. Plus the misdiagnoses was pathetic. Regarding Kleiza no one could find an issue with him in Toronto and yet he goes to Denver and it becomes obvious? Come on.

      Here's an article about Bargnani that just came out:

      hose injury problems have negatively affected both individual and team performances as players have felt obligated to play even when it looked like they should be on the bench. There just wasn't anyone else to put in the games. Amir Johnson has played with a sore back, Barbosa has played through a sore shoulder and a wrist injury that will likely require offseason surgery, Jerryd Bayless started one game on a sprained ankle that was painful for the people watching as he hobbled up and down the court, and Jose Calderon has been playing on a sore feet for weeks now.

      "Sometimes it is being forced to play certain players out of position or too many minutes so they are not given the time to recover," said Gherardini. "With Andrea maybe there have been times that we took him by the neck and forced him probably more than he actually (should) when he needed to rest.

      "The quality of his season changed when he had those physical issues and he tried to play with them and they got worse. That somehow got him out of sync."
      http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=18685

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      • #18
        I once heard ray allen call the NBA the "No Boy's Allowed" league. This game puts a ridiculous amount of strain on your joints and the only way I know of to survive the rigorous punishment done to your body is to strengthen the muscles around those joints. You have to completely buy into these professional trainers program or you will not benefit at all, just look at Sonny Weems and his whole I don't stretch ever thing, what a idiot. Look at bosh's body before he left in the summer, look at demar's body and look at Ed Davis, you can look at them and see they bought into the program completely.

        whether or not raptors are at fault, disregarding that kleiza played in 2 different leagues this year I fully expect him to be gone shortly after he recovers from his injury.

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        • #19
          Often times players have no other choice but to play injured. It seems like everyone on this team has some sort of ailment. Athletes get injured all the time. Your running up and down a hard court constantly, it wears on your knees and back. There is no one else to play so the players need to play hurt.

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          • #20
            This happens to every team in every sport. I can bet that most NBA teams have at least one player playing injured. We gave Sonny plenty of time to sit and recover and we've obviously given Reggie plenty of time for his foot to heal and we're giving Leandro time off. It's simply as case of needing players.

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            • #21
              666 wrote: View Post
              My biggest criticism is that management is allowing to guys play hurt. I don't believe that they were forced to play, I'm just shocked that they are allowed to after expressing pain. Plus the misdiagnoses was pathetic. Regarding Kleiza no one could find an issue with him in Toronto and yet he goes to Denver and it becomes obvious? Come on.
              J. Richard Steadman, M.D. is a specialist knee surgeon, practising in Vail, Colorado and a Clinical Professor at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas, Texas. He is best known medically for his work in the area of Microfracture surgery, and publicly for treating injured sports stars from around the world. (from wikipedia)

              from BBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/front_page/6295385.stm

              The guy is one of the best knee surgeons in the world and a leader in microfracture. Kleiza didn't go to get diagnosed. He went to have surgery from one of the best in the world.

              Ask any professional athlete if they ever play 100%, pain-free. I guarantee you from basketball to hockey to baseball to football to rugby to golf to whatever they all say no. Except curling and darts.

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              • #22
                Rg1990 wrote: View Post
                This happens to every team in every sport. I can bet that most NBA teams have at least one player playing injured. We gave Sonny plenty of time to sit and recover and we've obviously given Reggie plenty of time for his foot to heal and we're giving Leandro time off. It's simply as case of needing players.
                I'm sure every team has two or three 80% players on the court. But the Raptors' entire starting line-up and half the bench is 80%. Amir (back), Bargnani (achilles, knees), Calderon (ankle), Bayless (ankle/knee), Sonny Weems (back), Dorsey (hamstring), Barbosa (shoulder/wrist), Evans (foot), Davis (missed several months with knee issues), Peja (played first game missed the rest with knee issues, still injured in Dallas).

                Derozan, Ajinca and Wright are literally our only healthy players. That is suspicious. Can all these injuries be a matter of chance? Idk that's tough.

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                • #23
                  I think it is chance. I mean the Raptors managed to stay pretty healthy last year so I don't know how reliable this source is. Golden State and Portland were the two most injured teams and no one has called them out. No one has called out the Portland staff on why Brandon Roy can't stay healthy or on why Greg Oden is injured again. Who knows?

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                  • #24
                    Linas Kleiza is a grown ass man who can make his own decisions! I'm pretty sure he played through injury but who the hell in the NBA isn't playing through injury and pain! I'm positive no one on the raptors would force him to play, he tried forcing the issue probably and got more injured! If that was the case this news would be in canadian press not coming from greece!

                    If I were the raptors, yes I would want him to try and play because I invested 6 million in him! It's not like I gave him 20 dollars! Stop babying these guys, they're grown ups making lots of money!

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                    • #25
                      This is BS, I guarantee they knew about his injury and it was his choice to try and play.

                      Professional athletes have incredible access to medical imaging. Even CIS athletes will get an MRI within days, if not the day after, an injury. I highly doubt that the degree of Kleiza's injury was unknown to the team as it would readily show up on an MRI. He was probably given the pros and cons of continuing to play versus treating it conservatively versus having an operation.

                      The reality of meniscal tears is that very few of them are repairable (due to the blood supply). If they are causing a knee to lock or catch, cutting out the loose part is helpful.

                      In terms of microfracture for his osteochondral lesion, he basically had three options: 1) Suck it up and play as long as his symptoms allowed; 2) Rest it for a significant period of time and see if he feels better (not a good option for professional athletes); 3) get an operation with a prolonged recovery time.

                      My guess is he didn't like how such a long recovery time sounded and decided to see if he could play through it. After awhile he figured "I can't play through this, maybe I'll try resting for abit". When it didn't get better with resting, then he finally accepted that his best option was surgery.

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                      • #26
                        666 wrote: View Post
                        http://www.talkbasket.net/news/the-t...jury-4058.html

                        Wow... whether 100% true or not this is a major blow to the Raptors.

                        Look at our current roster and see how many players have missed games. Bargs, Amir, Bayless, Calderon playing through injuries. We might have the worst trainers in the league (Portland). Enjoy the all-star game Scott MacCulloch.
                        our medical staff is even incompetent too , hmmm that is not a surprise(see Peja's visit to the specialist while he was with the Raptors for a "second" opinion - that means the "first" opinion of the raptors was not conclusive).
                        Last edited by smushmush; Sat Feb 5, 2011, 05:47 PM.

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                        • #27
                          webcrawler89 wrote: View Post
                          Great, even our doctors are made out to be incompetent....

                          Seriously, this is horrible, not only for the Raptors, but for all of Canada. You know some crazy American jingoists are gonna pick this up and talk about our "inferior" healthcare system, and that in turn is really gonna affect future players from wanting to come here.
                          Remember when we drafted Ed and journalists were asking him about tax laws? Now it's gonna be "So, do you trust their doctors to keep you healthy?"...

                          ugh... This is like a bad nightmare.
                          Canada's health care system is indeed inferior - a case of excess demand(universal healthcare) versus limited supply(less doctors here due to our bad renumeration system for doctors here compared to our US counterparts, very high standards to get into medical school here too contributes to the problem). Also, I don't think a huge part of the team being injured is a coincidence. just my 2 cents.
                          Last edited by smushmush; Sat Feb 5, 2011, 05:48 PM.

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                          • #28
                            Kleiza the Good

                            bloodyhandedgod wrote: View Post
                            Maybe our biggest concern going forward is our medical staff. You guys are right in the fact we have huge health problems with our players. Maybe Kleiza is a lot better then we saw. Damn shame I have verbally abused him more than a few times due to his play.

                            Did not know our medical staff might have been mistreating him the whole time.
                            I'm one of the few that was really excited about Kleiza's arrival in TDot. Considering what has taken place, I'm not surprised that he struggled. I'm not saying I'm right but Kleiza is a lot better than what he's shown us so far.

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                            • #29
                              Matt52 wrote: View Post
                              I wouldn't even go that far about the players.

                              Bargnani strains his achilles - could happen to anyone. Knees are sore - what basketball player doesn't have sore knees at some point?

                              Calderon has feet issues - the guy has had many issues, add the feet to the list.
                              I believe that Bargnani's achilles problems comes from running on the balls of his feet. The way that he runs puts a lot of strain on the stabilizer muscles in his heels.

                              I don't know what the deal is with Calderon's feet, maybe it's his training regimen. I've had knee problems for years and changed my workout routine to compensate and try to strengthen my hamstrings and hips to bring my knees back into alignment and ended up getting plantar fasciitis. Some days it feels fine, some days walking is excruciating, regardless of whatever stretching and rehab I do. -- Didn't Jose have plantar fasciitis in his rookie year?

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                              • #30
                                There has never been any similar complaint before to my knowledge about the organization in similar matters. If anything BC projects bending towards players in terms of contracts and movements. Taking such a serious accusation and running with it without a quote either by the player, trainer, doctors or management is not good reportage. I would wait for comment from some of the parties to respond...most importantly Kleiza...and they should do it asap before our friends at espn get a sniff...if not already.

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