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  • #16
    Eurobasket wrote: View Post
    If you are bringing a coach from Europe, try to get the best one: Zeljko Obradovic, currently with Panathinaikos Athens. Messina is a good coach, but Obradovic is a living legend. He won 7 European Championships with 4 different teams, which is unheard of. The first one was in 1992 with Partizan Belgrade when he was only 32 years old, without any foreign players, probably the biggest upset in the history of the competition. He also coached Yugoslav national team to gold in European and World championships, and silver in the Olympics. He is phenomenal in the development of young players, great decision maker, and holds players very accountable, even when they are superstars. He was also a solid player (point guard), won silver with Yugoslavia in Seul olympics and gold at world championship in Argentina 1990 (Kukoc was MVP). He won everything there is, if he's willing to take a new challenge in the NBA, he will be successful for sure.
    Interesting. Solid insight.
    I'd heard his name in passing a few times, but have never really had much info. the guy.
    7 titles with 4 teams? That sounds like a European Phil Jackson.

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    • #17
      Apollo wrote: View Post
      Are they putting something in the water in America? He's touted as one of the best coaches in the world. Who gives damn where he's from as long as he speaks fluent English and delivers on his legendary name? Jay does not have the reputation Messina has. There was quite some buzz a few years back when he was considering the NBA.
      Not so much the water Apollo but the style of the game (tighter defences, etc. ). I'm not disputing his legendary status but questions his ability to communicate to North American and mostly American players. He can get to Euros, how about other players? I mean Sloan just stepped down because of the friction with Deron. I'm sure that if he comes over, he has a chance to succeed but not with this franchise. They need someone they can trust, someone they're familiar with.



      Don't get me wrong, he knows what he's doing. However, will this be another experiment in cultural differences?
      Last edited by Balls of Steel; Thu Feb 10, 2011, 08:00 PM.

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      • #18
        joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
        Interesting. Solid insight.
        I'd heard his name in passing a few times, but have never really had much info. the guy.
        7 titles with 4 teams? That sounds like a European Phil Jackson.
        Phil Jackson is a great coach, no doubt about it but he had Michael and Kobe (plus Pippen, Kukoc, Shaq, Gasol...) Obradovic was usually building teams from the scratch. Take for example European titles with Partizan Belgrade (Yugoslavia) and Joventut Badalona (Spain), almost unknown teams for people outside Europe, with very low budget compared to the European power houses. People in USA and Canada do not realize how difficult is to win European championship, there's so much pressure on the players and teams, especially when playing away from home. He also won with Real Madrid once and 4 times (!!!) with Panathenaikos Athens, won the Saporta Cup with Benetton Treviso and countless national championships and cups. I followed his career as a player and I could not believe how good coach he became, simply amazing. The only problem is he's been with Panathenaikos since 1999, so I'm not sure if he's willing to leave Athens and come over. He is only 50 years old, he has coached for almost 20 years and played the game on the highest level. Young players like Davis and DeRozan will explode under his guidance, and even with this roster, I would guarantee that the Raptors with Obradovic would made the playoffs this season FOR SURE. He just needs several months to work with the players and get to know them, that's all. There are no communication or "cultural" issues, the guy has traveled the world more than anyone else. If anyone from the Raptors office is reading these forums, I would strongly recommend to check out this guy before anyone else.

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        • #19
          joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
          What about Iavaroni though? That was supposed to usher in a whole new era of Defensive Raps combined with Hustle and Flow Raps.
          Now obviously he's not on the level of say a Tom Thibedeau or Larry Brown, but we actually GOT WORSE on defense by bringing in a defensive minded assistant to have Jay's ear. I just don't see tooo many of these guys playing OUTSTANDING defense. Whether the coach says to or not. I think we could make certain tweaks that would make us marginally better, but at this point even that won't make us even average.
          +1 plus Iavaroni is on the Clippers now(and I have been watching their games) and they have been playing decent defense now(unlike our abysmal defense last year) and Blake Griffin that can`t block shots due to his short arms has started contributing defensively by taking charges.

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          • #20
            joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
            What about Iavaroni though? That was supposed to usher in a whole new era of Defensive Raps combined with Hustle and Flow Raps.
            lol you're kidding right?

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            • #21
              Eurobasket wrote: View Post
              Phil Jackson is a great coach, no doubt about it but he had Michael and Kobe (plus Pippen, Kukoc, Shaq, Gasol...) Obradovic was usually building teams from the scratch. Take for example European titles with Partizan Belgrade (Yugoslavia) and Joventut Badalona (Spain), almost unknown teams for people outside Europe, with very low budget compared to the European power houses. People in USA and Canada do not realize how difficult is to win European championship, there's so much pressure on the players and teams, especially when playing away from home. He also won with Real Madrid once and 4 times (!!!) with Panathenaikos Athens, won the Saporta Cup with Benetton Treviso and countless national championships and cups. I followed his career as a player and I could not believe how good coach he became, simply amazing. The only problem is he's been with Panathenaikos since 1999, so I'm not sure if he's willing to leave Athens and come over. He is only 50 years old, he has coached for almost 20 years and played the game on the highest level. Young players like Davis and DeRozan will explode under his guidance, and even with this roster, I would guarantee that the Raptors with Obradovic would made the playoffs this season FOR SURE. He just needs several months to work with the players and get to know them, that's all. There are no communication or "cultural" issues, the guy has traveled the world more than anyone else. If anyone from the Raptors office is reading these forums, I would strongly recommend to check out this guy before anyone else.
              you, sir, have an outstanding quality:quantity post ratio.. very interesting insight

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              • #22
                heinz57 wrote: View Post
                you, sir, have an outstanding quality:quantity post ratio.. very interesting insight
                I know, right? Not to mention the Petrovic avatar. Dude's quality.
                Welcome to RR, Eurobasket! I can tell you'll help out with the enormous amount of ignorance toward European basketball.

                Comment


                • #23
                  The question really should be: Does Ettore make a spicy meatball which Andrea is willing to swallow. Give him a 1 yr. contract with massive performance bonus and additional 2 yrs. if he can make Bargs become a beast on defense....10 rbs, 2 blks, 1 stl. per game .

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                    I know, right? Not to mention the Petrovic avatar. Dude's quality.
                    Welcome to RR, Eurobasket! I can tell you'll help out with the enormous amount of ignorance toward European basketball.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Eurobasket wrote: View Post
                      All it takes is to get people and players with winning attitude who are not afraid to step on somebody's toes, and this team can become one of the best in NBA. It does not have to be another 5 or 10 year building process.
                      Completely agree. I think the mentality the players bring to the floor every night really shows in how they play.
                      If you watch teams like the Lakers and Boston, they play hard EVERY game. With the Raptors, you see them more play to their opponents (ie play hard against big teams, play soft against bad teams) which is very discouraging. I think alot of that has to do with Coaching as well as the Players themselves.

                      They show the timeouts every once in a while during the Raptors broadcast and you can see that Triano just doesn't seem to want to ruffle any feathers. Like he was the nice, player friendly Assistant before, and he's tried to maintain the same relationship with the players. Which is incorrect of him. I think he's a brilliant coach, but he needs a bit more edge I think. Needs to dig a bit deeper.

                      If Obradovic can get through to these guys, and really turn them into the players they should be, I'd be on board. That's one HELL of a track record he's got there.
                      Has he talked ever of coming to the NBA? As has been mentioned, Messina made a big hoopla about maybe making the jump, but I've heard very little of Obradovic even considering. Perhaps I've missed it though. Has he been courted by any teams at all either?

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                        Completely agree. I think the mentality the players bring to the floor every night really shows in how they play.
                        If you watch teams like the Lakers and Boston, they play hard EVERY game. With the Raptors, you see them more play to their opponents (ie play hard against big teams, play soft against bad teams) which is very discouraging. I think alot of that has to do with Coaching as well as the Players themselves.

                        They show the timeouts every once in a while during the Raptors broadcast and you can see that Triano just doesn't seem to want to ruffle any feathers. Like he was the nice, player friendly Assistant before, and he's tried to maintain the same relationship with the players. Which is incorrect of him. I think he's a brilliant coach, but he needs a bit more edge I think. Needs to dig a bit deeper.

                        If Obradovic can get through to these guys, and really turn them into the players they should be, I'd be on board. That's one HELL of a track record he's got there.
                        Has he talked ever of coming to the NBA? As has been mentioned, Messina made a big hoopla about maybe making the jump, but I've heard very little of Obradovic even considering. Perhaps I've missed it though. Has he been courted by any teams at all either?
                        He has one more year with Panathenaikos after this one. Although he never expressed explicit interest to come to NBA, this is by far the best league in the world and I think he would like the challenge. If Toronto has a good winning team, it will always be the first choice for the European players (or coaches) to come here because of all the national communities we have.

                        Don't get me wrong, even with all his titles he is not perfect, but he is close to it. I like Messina as well. It does not have to be European coach, there are plenty of good ones in USA, but it has to be someone with proven track record (enough with the rookie coaches) who will not be afraid to ruffle the feathers as you say (very good observation, Triano never points out any players or gets in their face during the timeouts).

                        Here`s an interview with Obradovic, just to get a feel how the man thinks (we can draw a lot of parallels with the problems of Toronto):

                        What is your greatest reward for all your accomplishments with Panathinaikos given that you are also working in a foreign country?

                        - I want to see the arena full and fans should leave happy with what they see on the floor. It is difficult to fill the OAKA, but every sold-out is like a title for us. The greatest benefit is for the fans to understand the team and basketball, really helping us and not setting obstacles on our way. Before the 4th final I said to the players: " Guys we worked really hard to have 20.000 people on our side"

                        Do you learn something everyday?

                        - That's life, not only basketball. Like the ancient Greeks said, we are aging constantly learning something. I learn from my partners and my players. Truth is you make decisions and the players, who are smart, understand the seriousness of the matter. In the last play of the Euroleague Final I talked with Dimitris (Itoudis) and said to the players: "Let's play defense". I didn't explain anything further. And they agreed.

                        What is your method of bringing the best out of players or having players adapt to the team, like Jasikevicius who was free to do whatever he wanted in his previous teams?

                        - Jasikevicius came to a team that had achieved a Triple Crown it was not easy at all for him, having that character, to adjust to the teams immediately. I remember last year, everytime that Panathinaikos didn't play well, there was talk of Jasikevivius. I was the first to try to protect him. I am the coach and I have the biggest responsibility. It is easy to find a player and say "He didn't play well, let's blame him, and all will be fine". Sarunas was very different this year, he took the team on his shoulders many times and played very well.

                        Do you ask for something more, besides being healthy, after all you have accomplished in basketball?

                        - I believe life is simple. There is people you like and love and we all should be talking about health. I like life and I am happy every morning I wake up. I try to enjoy life. Some of the things I like are those that we're talking about. Life, basketball, making the people I love and the team I love happy. You asked me before the interview if I am tired. I'm telling you I am not. I talk about the things I love. It is something that makes me happy. I try every morning to enjoy life because afterall life is short. It is not possible to be happy everyday or to be successfull everytime .

                        Is your happiness based on the so many titles you have won in such a short period of time?

                        - Titles are a short pleasure. You try everyday hard in order to win a title in another day, but you can not celebrate it more than 2-3 days. You have a drink, you listen to the props and the wishes and then you start thinking of the next chapter of your life. To me everyday happiness is being with my friends talking about all matters, not only basketball, having them beside me, and them having me besides them. It is very important to me for friends to come over from Serbia, Italy, Greece and hang out. They are simple friends that I appreciate and respect a lot. Likewise it is great to have around your family. I told my daughter I would support anything she wants to and I will say the same to my son.

                        What value do you give money?

                        - Without money you can not do many nice things. I have people I help, because I gain a lot more back from them, but I don't work in order to earn as much as possible. I want to spend in order to have a nice time without exaggerating.

                        We've seen you turning red while coaching. How do you beat stress and pressure?

                        - I do not turn red, i turn blue (laughs). It is a normal reaction to me. It's my style. I don't yell at a player to force me over him, instead I give him arguments on how he didn't do what we had discussed, correctly. When I talk to the players on the bench, I am preparing them so when they get on court they will do correctly what their teammates are not. I am not stressed. I feel I have tension, but I do not act under pressure. I try to find solutions throughout the game, because I don't have much time to think. That's why I have told Dimitris (Itoudis) to talk to me constantly and to tell me everything he thinks. I make the decisions, but it is important to have beside me someone that I trust not 100%, but 1000%

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Eurobasket wrote: View Post
                          He has one more year with Panathenaikos after this one. Although he never expressed explicit interest to come to NBA, this is by far the best league in the world and I think he would like the challenge. If Toronto has a good winning team, it will always be the first choice for the European players (or coaches) to come here because of all the national communities we have.

                          Don't get me wrong, even with all his titles he is not perfect, but he is close to it. I like Messina as well. It does not have to be European coach, there are plenty of good ones in USA, but it has to be someone with proven track record (enough with the rookie coaches) who will not be afraid to ruffle the feathers as you say (very good observation, Triano never points out any players or gets in their face during the timeouts).

                          Here`s an interview with Obradovic, just to get a feel how the man thinks (we can draw a lot of parallels with the problems of Toronto):

                          What is your greatest reward for all your accomplishments with Panathinaikos given that you are also working in a foreign country?

                          - I want to see the arena full and fans should leave happy with what they see on the floor. It is difficult to fill the OAKA, but every sold-out is like a title for us. The greatest benefit is for the fans to understand the team and basketball, really helping us and not setting obstacles on our way. Before the 4th final I said to the players: " Guys we worked really hard to have 20.000 people on our side"

                          Do you learn something everyday?

                          - That's life, not only basketball. Like the ancient Greeks said, we are aging constantly learning something. I learn from my partners and my players. Truth is you make decisions and the players, who are smart, understand the seriousness of the matter. In the last play of the Euroleague Final I talked with Dimitris (Itoudis) and said to the players: "Let's play defense". I didn't explain anything further. And they agreed.

                          What is your method of bringing the best out of players or having players adapt to the team, like Jasikevicius who was free to do whatever he wanted in his previous teams?

                          - Jasikevicius came to a team that had achieved a Triple Crown it was not easy at all for him, having that character, to adjust to the teams immediately. I remember last year, everytime that Panathinaikos didn't play well, there was talk of Jasikevivius. I was the first to try to protect him. I am the coach and I have the biggest responsibility. It is easy to find a player and say "He didn't play well, let's blame him, and all will be fine". Sarunas was very different this year, he took the team on his shoulders many times and played very well.

                          Do you ask for something more, besides being healthy, after all you have accomplished in basketball?

                          - I believe life is simple. There is people you like and love and we all should be talking about health. I like life and I am happy every morning I wake up. I try to enjoy life. Some of the things I like are those that we're talking about. Life, basketball, making the people I love and the team I love happy. You asked me before the interview if I am tired. I'm telling you I am not. I talk about the things I love. It is something that makes me happy. I try every morning to enjoy life because afterall life is short. It is not possible to be happy everyday or to be successfull everytime .

                          Is your happiness based on the so many titles you have won in such a short period of time?

                          - Titles are a short pleasure. You try everyday hard in order to win a title in another day, but you can not celebrate it more than 2-3 days. You have a drink, you listen to the props and the wishes and then you start thinking of the next chapter of your life. To me everyday happiness is being with my friends talking about all matters, not only basketball, having them beside me, and them having me besides them. It is very important to me for friends to come over from Serbia, Italy, Greece and hang out. They are simple friends that I appreciate and respect a lot. Likewise it is great to have around your family. I told my daughter I would support anything she wants to and I will say the same to my son.

                          What value do you give money?

                          - Without money you can not do many nice things. I have people I help, because I gain a lot more back from them, but I don't work in order to earn as much as possible. I want to spend in order to have a nice time without exaggerating.

                          We've seen you turning red while coaching. How do you beat stress and pressure?

                          - I do not turn red, i turn blue (laughs). It is a normal reaction to me. It's my style. I don't yell at a player to force me over him, instead I give him arguments on how he didn't do what we had discussed, correctly. When I talk to the players on the bench, I am preparing them so when they get on court they will do correctly what their teammates are not. I am not stressed. I feel I have tension, but I do not act under pressure. I try to find solutions throughout the game, because I don't have much time to think. That's why I have told Dimitris (Itoudis) to talk to me constantly and to tell me everything he thinks. I make the decisions, but it is important to have beside me someone that I trust not 100%, but 1000%
                          Now, I think I am really sold on the Obradovic guy(thanks for mentioning enough with the rookie coaches), from the little I read in the interview, he talked about defense in glowing terms and the team playing hard to get fans on their side. I would give him a chance and have a throrough interview with the guy on how he can get this disparate group of players we have to play some defence. If he gives a reasonable answer to getting these guys to play defense, I would give him a chance to coach this team(what's more, he is a title winning coach, players would obviously listen to him plus if I am MLSE, I would buy him out of his one year remaining contract with Panathinakos if he is the right fit). However, the part where he said he does not yell at his players is a real source of concern(in the NBA, some players need to be yelled at to get the point across even Gregg Poppovich does that and Doc Rivers some times too(remember the game where Big Baby Davis shot a 3 point ball in the clutch and it did not go in? lmao).
                          Last edited by smushmush; Sun Feb 13, 2011, 04:27 PM.

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                          • #28
                            Well, Messina just resigned from Real Madrid. Your wish may become true.

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                            • #29
                              Maleko wrote: View Post
                              Well, Messina just resigned from Real Madrid. Your wish may become true.
                              YAY! new coach!

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                              • #30
                                Raptors_ wrote: View Post
                                YAY! new coach!
                                Before the Raptors faithful get all bent out of shape declaring the suddenly available Ettore Messina as a viable option should the team not elect to bring head coach Jay Triano back next year, consider the following:

                                Messina is without question a great coach, a great tactician and has more than proven himself in Europe.

                                His credentials speak for themselves.

                                And while his shocking decision to quit Real Madrid on Friday certainly raises eyebrows throughout the sport regardless of the continent, it would require the perfect set of circumstances for a man as exacting and demanding as Messina to come into the NBA and have the kind of success he had in Europe.

                                Messina’s my-way-or-the-highway approach that has worked so well for him in Europe would be a very hard sell in the NBA.

                                Few outside of Jerry Sloan, formerly of Utah, and Gregg Popovich, of San Antonio, have been able to run a team in the NBA with that kind of approach. With many of today’s NBA millionaires calling the shots, unless there is someone at the top of the food chain like a Tim Duncan or Karl Malone or even John Stockton to set the tone for the rest, it’s almost a recipe for disaster.

                                Not saying it can’t happen. Just saying it would be very, very hard to do.


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