Amir to the Bench, Start AB-ED

[Joey]

He is mediocre in all aspects except that intangible "hustle".

You say it likes it's nothing though.
If Bargnani had HALF the hustle Amir does, then Bargs would be Top 10 player in the league.

Amir may be "average" but the fact that he hustle's make's him above average. In my opinion.

DISCLAIMER: I am arguing in favour of Amir. Not against Bargnani.

[Multipaul]

You say it likes it's nothing though.
If Bargnani had HALF the hustle Amir does, then Bargs would be Top 10 player in the league.

Amir may be "average" but the fact that he hustle's make's him above average. In my opinion.

DISCLAIMER: I am arguing in favour of Amir. Not against Bargnani.

I agree

[hateslosing]

Right now Amir is playing better. Ed had two solid games and that means he should get his minutes upped but Amir has been playing very well this year and deserves to start. It things continue the way they were against the clips for a couple weeks, you maybe start Ed but I would much rather we played whichever of the two has a better body of work on the season rather than switching out because one has a couple good or bad games.

[Tim W.]

Right now Amir is playing better. Ed had two solid games and that means he should get his minutes upped but Amir has been playing very well this year and deserves to start. It things continue the way they were against the clips for a couple weeks, you maybe start Ed but I would much rather we played whichever of the two has a better body of work on the season rather than switching out because one has a couple good or bad games.

Minutes should be doled out according to effort given on defense. Both Davis and Amir have consistently given good effort on defense.

[pesterm1]

Amir has been in foul trouble the entire season, including the last few games. He also turns it over like crazy and misses easy layups. His grit and hunger are good off the bench when playing against another teams bench. The sloppiness does not deem him worthy of a starting role...yet..

i dont recall a game where amir has been in that bad of foul trouble in a long time other then the clippers game(and can you blame him he was playing d on griffin, alot of the fouls were brutal too and its obvious griffin is already getting "kobe" calls). Amir has been playing great lately and at this point he is the clear starter IMO. maybe by next season or if amir is injured and ed breaks out then Ed should start. at this point i think your just kinda making stuff up. how could u say the things ur saying but not think bargnani should have been in the second unit when he was playing like garbage a week ago. at this point these guys are playing for minutes and i think thats a possotive thing for them.

Lately bargs is playing better but i think thats only cause he is starting to see that if he doesnt try harder he will be out. Ed at C and Amir at PF, thats bargs worst nightmare lol so now he fnally tries on both ends. They said it best on raps post game Bargnani doesnt have to be the best defender, no one expects that. but he has to be better. I think bargs is finally realizing that and i personally see him putting out more effort and hustling.

[pesterm1]

Why hasnt it been discussed to bring bargs off the bench. not just as a hit to bargnani but honestly maybe he would do alot better. what player from any other teams second unit could defend him? honestly he would light it up and his 6 rebounds and below average defence would be acceptable. People usually use this argument as hatred towards bargnani but maybe it would actually be better. like lets sayby the middle of next season or by the 2012-2013 season bargs goes to the bench when Ed and Amir are more suitable starters with a completely game and body. Not saying it would work 100 percent but it could be worth trying. Andrea could still get his 20 points and 6 rebounds. and he could play in spurts and still collect his 30 mins. thoughts ?

[WhatWhat]

Amir's still a better player than Davis right now, so he should still be starting. I'm still holding out that Davis becomes strong enough to bang with Cs, so then we could start both of them.

Yeah, but I said this Bargnani. I said it that way because there is still a slight chance that he shows us an improvement to defense and rebound before the year is out.

Very slim chance. Realistically, it would be an improvement that no player has ever done. For us to succeed as a team (assuming that improvement doesn't come), White Swan needs to be coming off of the bench or traded. Personally, I think he would be great off the bench, but I'd be shopping him heavily on draft day.

[smushmush]

I think that is a bit of an impulse move based on a small sample. Amir's history is what it is but he is showing big improvement in his game. I'd say a few of the calls against Amir were of the Blake Griffin's Blake Griffin variety and there was probably more strategic use of the fouls as well. Ed was great but there have been several games where he has been a non-factor. This is not a problem yet with Amir and Ed in tandem at the 4, but there will come a time when Ed will become the starter at that position. Bargnani was great on D yesterday but that is not something you see everyday. Once there is reason to be confident in consistent performances from Amir, Ed and Andrea then you can more easily determine who should be where.

+1 on the Blake Griffin superstar calls on Amir(2 imo were like that) but we know this is a David Stern league where superstars are good for 3 callls to the free throw line even if you only breath on them lol(say it with me they are called superstar calls). I can`t wait for us to trade Bargs too. Start one of Ed Davis or Amir, get a good center in Pryzbilla, Marc Gasol or Dalemebert and backup center in Hasheem Thabeet once he can do the things required of a center which is the dirty work for this team to win(one of Solomon Alabi and Alexis Ajinca needs to go as both are real projects lol - I am leaning towards the latter as Ajinca is another soft center that shoots jumpshots like Andrea(just the way BC likes his bigs - finesse, in my opinion, the Ajinca trade is now looking like a head scratcher lmao) to shore up our bigs position once and for all.

[smushmush]

I don't know, I think amir is the raps most well rounded player. Foul trouble was a serious issue last year but he's curbed that problem for the most part this year. Also there's something to be said about a young team with a 4 who can run the floor like amir.

I'd like Bargs to stick around. I do think he's more of a PF than a C and he's got the moves of a top tier guard, unfortunately he's also got the rebounding numbers of one too.

if i had a chance to "fix" the raptors I'd move Bargs to the starting 4 and trade amir (I love the dude but his back problems are worrisome) I'd do what i could to pick up a strong defensive SF to help neutralize all the crazy good 3s in the NBA and last but not least I'd try to pick up a strong in the post and on the glass Centre. I think that would fill up some of the defensive gaps the raptors have and would actually give toronto a chance to make some noise in the east. If you guys are curious i'd say my untradeables in this scenario are Davis, Derozan, Bargs, Calderon and Bayless(i still got faith in this kid).


Any good Cs or SFs coming up for free agency this summer?

Now that is bad GMing on your part(on Khan`s level in Minnesota) lol. So you tell me you would trade Amir and start Bargs at the 4 when it should be the opposite way lol. Getting a center next to Bargs is not going to mask Bargs terrible defense(both man to man and help) as they will keep going at him(anybody notice teams go against Bargs in the clutch when they really need a bucket lol? Yeah, I thought so lmao) and don`t tell me about the Dirk Nowitzki case(he is miles ahead of Andrea in defense even though his defense too is atrocious but are we seriously having this discussion lmao?).

[JoePanini]

Ed Davis is going to be the Raptors' starter for sure, if not this year, next year. Bargnani is going to be starter until we get a center which is better than him. Johnson is good, plays defense, plays hard, but is not going to start in Davis' place come October.

[JoePanini]

How is he the obvious better choice?

FT Shooting: Amir Amir
Jump shop: Amir Amir, for now
Overall Offense: Amir Davis, he actually has a nice post shot and will develop a lot IMO
Reb: Amir (by a bit) Davis
BLK: Ed Davis
Def: Amir (Ed is good but he gets pushed around) Davis, by a lot, considering it's his first year and he was injured for the first part of the season.

And what you said about fouling is completely untrue. Amir has been doing a MUCH better job of handling fouls as of late.

BTW Amir has been in the league 5 years but has really only got to play the last year and this year.

Davis is a better overall player than Amir is. Amir brings energy and all, but Ed has really got the fundamentals.

[smushmush]

LOL, come on man, Amir and Bargs is apples and oranges. Bargs is on a much higher level, he is a "go to" guy, puts up like 30 pts a game. You can't even compare.

PS- if Amir played better in DET he wouldve got more playing time.

Go to guy getting 21 points on 18 shots lmao - that means any YMCA player too can be a ``go-to`` player lol. Multipaul, you are approaching troll status(stop it if it is a joke) with your defense of Bargs and the lies you continually spill out every day to support him lol. Bargs is the poster child for a spoilt and untouchable basketball player that feels no need to improve his atrocious rebounding and defense in the NBA and his role is only to score(which is not even efficient by the way for a ``scorer``). ``Nuff said.

[Tim W.]

i dont recall a game where amir has been in that bad of foul trouble in a long time other then the clippers game(and can you blame him he was playing d on griffin, alot of the fouls were brutal too and its obvious griffin is already getting "kobe" calls). Amir has been playing great lately and at this point he is the clear starter IMO. maybe by next season or if amir is injured and ed breaks out then Ed should start. at this point i think your just kinda making stuff up. how could u say the things ur saying but not think bargnani should have been in the second unit when he was playing like garbage a week ago. at this point these guys are playing for minutes and i think thats a possotive thing for them.

Lately bargs is playing better but i think thats only cause he is starting to see that if he doesnt try harder he will be out. Ed at C and Amir at PF, thats bargs worst nightmare lol so now he fnally tries on both ends. They said it best on raps post game Bargnani doesnt have to be the best defender, no one expects that. but he has to be better. I think bargs is finally realizing that and i personally see him putting out more effort and hustling.

Did what's-his-name really say that Amir has been in foul trouble the last few games, misses easy layups and turns the ball over like crazy???

And no one called him on it?

These are completely and utterly false accusations. You might as say that Bargnani can't shoot.

Amir Johnson has not been in foul trouble the last few games

Before the Clipper game, in 4 out of last 5 games, Amir played more than 36 minutes. Hard to do if you're in foul trouble. And since New Years, Amir has averaged 30 mpg. Again, hard to do if you're constantly in foul trouble.

Amir Johnson shoots a higher percentage in close than Bargnani.

From 82games.com...

Bargnani
Close .558
Dunk .900
Tips .250
Inside .576

Amir
Close .607
Dunk .920
Tips .621
Inside .658

Amir shoots a better percentage on EVERYTHING inside, especially tip-ins. And Amir is 4th in the entire league in field goal percentage. Hard to do if you miss a lot of layups.

Amir does NOT turn the ball over like crazy.

Per 36 minutes, Amir turns the ball 1.4 times a game as compared to Bargnani's 2.5 per game. Amir also has a positive assist to turnover ratio, as compared to a negative one for Bargnani.

Now you could argue that Bargnani has the ball more than Amir, so he's going to turn over the ball more. Well, that's partially true. Amir's turnover percentage (turnovers per 100 plays) is 11.3, only slightly more than Bargnani's 10.9.

So if Amir turns the ball over like crazy, then Bargnani must, as well.

It's one thing to blindly praise a completely flawed player, but if you want to argue about something.....

DON'T MAKE THINGS UP!

(This post is not in response to the above quote, but I have Multipaul on ignore, so don't see most of his posts)

[pesterm1]

Thank you Tim! finally somone else feels like i do. i cant stand this BS anymore and people just spit out random things that dont even exist to try and proove their point that is completely false to begin with. Multipaul is a TROLL. If you want a reference im sure other posters and myself can gather alot of them.

[mcHAPPY]

Did what's-his-name really say that Amir has been in foul trouble the last few games, misses easy layups and turns the ball over like crazy???

And no one called him on it?

I made reference and provided a link for his game stats via ESPN. I disagreed with the fouls of late and the easy layups.

I still think Davis will be the starting 4 in the future and eventually Amir will serve the team off the bench. I hope he embraces this role because he will cause terror for opposing teams second unit.