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  • Wow...that happened quickly.

    it seems like just yesterday when being a raptor fan filled one with, at worst, optimistic hope. you could look at the other atlantic teams, and it was a sea of mediocrity (at best), without much of a future. NY was a joke, NJ was imploding, philly was meh, and boston looked like it was going to lose it's franchise player. ah, 2006/7. heady times. TO brings in a 'legit' wunderkind to right the ship, they get the #1 pick, lots of cap space, and have a 'franchise' player to build around.

    now? well, let's see...

    boston pulled a couple heist moves in acquiring KG & allen, after being foiled in their attempts to tank & get the #1 pick in '07. usually, the karma gods bestow pain/suffering/misery on that kind of blatant tanking, but not in beantown, where it's been rewarded with a chip, a top-5 pg & a longer run of excellence than anyone would likely have thought at the time.

    philly - it took a while, and having brand be brand for a couple years didn't help...neither did iggy thinking he was a number 1 scoring option. but over the last few months, they've been one of the better teams in the east. brand is BRAND again, holliday is taking control of that team, iggy is playing like everyone says he should (picking his spots offensively, great D, etc.), and turner is showing why people have such high hopes for him.

    NJ - still somethong of a joke, but certainly with some upside. if they could figure how how lopez caught bargnaniitis (a strange & unexplained mental disorder that causes the sufferer to be unable or unwilling to rebound) & treat it, they'd have a fairly decent future, even if they missed out on melo (and killed murphy's trade value this season). they'll be active this week...should be interesting how things play out.

    NY - i guess they aren't a joke now, right? not title contenders (yet), still don't have much of a bench, and they can't really stop anyone, but they've moved themselves into a position to at least compete with the upper echelon teams in the E. like the heat, it'll probably be another year or two before all the pieces come together, but the future looks bright.

    and now...YOUR...TORONTOOOOOOOOOO RAPTORRRRRS! - hmm. let's see. i like their uniforms. ed davis looks like a decent enough prospect, at least on the defensive/rebounding side. derozan is likely a good 2nd/3rd scoring option. bargs is bargs (i.e. what you see is what you're going to get). the future? who knows?

    so, basically, the raptors went from being a team on the rise in a division that sucked just 4 years ago, to being on the outside looking in at that same division. they've been passed by literally every team in their division in such a short timeframe, it kinda makes your head spin.
    TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.

  • #2
    Nothing changes for Toronto at all. They weren't a team on the rise. They're like two or three years out from making any sort of noise at best. A lot can happen in that amount of time. The Celtics as you know them will be over by then. The 76ers aren't that far ahead right now. Who knows what sorts of pieces the Knicks will have around Amare and Melo by then but neither has won anything and their head coach's system has failed time after time in the playoffs. No need to worry if you're going to be able to drive on the 401 in rush hour if you're not old enough to even get your learners permit.

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    • #3
      I'm not sure I agree with the analysis - not saying it is wrong because it is only opinions afterall.

      NYK - absolutely got a top tier talent to play with another. However, they gave up much of their depth to get it. New CBA could certainly hinder flexibilty moving forward (MIA too)

      BOS - they are still one of the top teams but the expiration date is causing one to sniff in the carton (does that make sense?). Certainly good for another season or two but after that???

      PHI - what you see is what you get. They still lack a starting C, Brand is certainly playing better but nowhere near his best days and is owed $35M for the next 2 seasons, AI is good but not a franchise player. They have a lot of money tied up in what they have. The only way I see them getting better is if Holiday and Turner become stars.

      NJ - They have Lopez who has regressed - that is it. Favors is still a prospect and I'd rather have Davis due to his obvious high bball IQ, they have another 4 years of Outlaw, Devin Harris is on his way out and they are looking for an expiring in Miller in return. I honestly feel NJ is in a harder spot than TOR. Their only saving grace is the draft.

      For the next year or two I agree with your assessment with the exception of NJ. However, in two seasons I think playoffs are a minimum expectation.

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      • #4
        Yeah, the Raps are still the in the same boat as before; they need to draft well, try to avoid making any FA mistakes, and hope like hell that DeDe and Davis make a leap to above-average starter/boarderline allstar level.
        This team is not going to be an sucessful playoff team until they aquire an impact 1 or 3 that can break defenses down off the dribble, take the ball to the hoop, get to the line, and play tough defense. The whole franchise needs to develop a new defensive mentality as well, one that affects how they draft and sign new players.
        If they can do those 2 things, it won't matter what the other teams in the division do.

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        • #5
          1) Horford nailed TJ and destroyed the 2 headed guard beast
          2) Garbajosa picked the wrong breakaway to hustle on, SNAP GOES LEG, and we lost the leader that would have stayed and punched people's faces into being a disciplined team.
          That is what happened.

          Knicks just took 6 steps forward but 5 back.

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          • #6
            Speaking of the Raptors future, based on a couple different articles, I'm wondering if BC might be making a run at Danilo Gallinari?

            The ESPN article summarizing the blockbuster Anthony trade indicates that Toronto is one of a few rumored potential destinations for Gallinari, with Denver wanting at least a 1st-round pick in return. article link: http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/n...ory?id=6145912

            Doug Smith's blog refers to BC saying he'd be willing to trade Miami's 1st-round pick in the upcoming draft, for the right player. article link: http://www.thestar.com/sports/basket...or-trade-front

            Obviously I'm doing some inferring to make article 1 + article 2 = a Gallinari-to-Toronto rumor, but I think there is some logical sense to it.
            1 - the Raptors are thin at the SF position, which Gallinari plays
            2 - the Raptors have been a terrible shooting team this season, especially from 3pt land, which is a Gallinari strength
            3 - Denver wants a 1st-round pick and Toronto seems willing to give one up

            I wonder if Miami's 1st-round pick and maybe Alabi, given Masai Ujiri's relationship with Alabi and his role in Toronto trading for him this past draft day, would be sufficient for a Gallinari-to-Toronto trade?

            So, I pose two questions to RR members:
            1 - do you think this type of deal could be on the horizon?
            2 - if yes, what do you thik of this deal from Toronto's standpoint?
            Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Tue Feb 22nd, 2011, 11:57 AM.

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            • #7
              CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
              Speaking of the Raptors future, based on a couple different articles, I'm wondering if BC might be making a run at Danilo Gallinari?

              The ESPN article summarizing the blockbuster Anthony trade indicates that Toronto is one of a few rumored potential destinations for Gallinari, with Denver wanting at least a 1st-round pick in return. article link: http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/n...ory?id=6145912

              Doug Smith's blog refers to BC saying he'd be willing to trade Miami's 1st-round pick in the upcoming draft, for the right player. article link: http://www.thestar.com/sports/basket...or-trade-front

              Obviously I'm doing some inferring to make article 1 + article 2 = a Gallinari-to-Toronto rumor, but I think there is some logical sense to it.
              1 - the Raptors are thin at the SF position, which Gallinari plays
              2 - the Raptors have been a terrible shooting team this season, especially from 3pt land, which is a Gallinari strength
              3 - Denver wants a 1st-round pick and Toronto seems willing to give one up

              I wonder if Miami's 1st-round pick and maybe Alabi, given Masai Ujiri's relationship with Alabi and his role in Toronto trading for him this past draft day, would be sufficient for a Gallinari-to-Toronto trade?

              So, I pose two questions to RR members:
              1 - do you think this type of deal could be on the horizon?
              2 - if yes, what do you thik of this deal from Toronto's standpoint?
              Whoa Whoa Whoa... Gallinari is WAAYYY too similar a player to Bargnani for this to really make sense. I know Galli is a SF and Bargs a PF/C but the only reason Bargs isn't a SF is his frame.

              That being said, A) I'd rather Gallinari over Bargs at this point (just straight tired), use Bargs trade value and get 1/some solid pieces out of him... and B) a late 1st round pick + Alabi for Galli.. if that trade is legal you'd have to do it no questions asked!

              Comment


              • #8
                Apollo wrote: View Post
                Nothing changes for Toronto at all. They weren't a team on the rise. They're like two or three years out from making any sort of noise at best. A lot can happen in that amount of time. The Celtics as you know them will be over by then. The 76ers aren't that far ahead right now. Who knows what sorts of pieces the Knicks will have around Amare and Melo by then but neither has won anything and their head coach's system has failed time after time in the playoffs. No need to worry if you're going to be able to drive on the 401 in rush hour if you're not old enough to even get your learners permit.
                Apollo, you hit the nail on the head, Toronto hasn't changed. We need a GM that will change things and his name ain't Bryan Colangelo. He got 5 years to do it. Now, it's someone else's to do so.
                “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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                • #9
                  Yeah, they got Jones from Chicago with that pick.

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                  • #10
                    keffyboy wrote: View Post
                    Yeah, they got Jones from Chicago with that pick.
                    Jones?

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                    • #11
                      MangoKid wrote: View Post
                      Jones?
                      Ya we just got James Jones as well. Didn't you hear ... oh no wait...

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                      • #12
                        Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
                        Apollo, you hit the nail on the head, Toronto hasn't changed. We need a GM that will change things and his name ain't Bryan Colangelo. He got 5 years to do it. Now, it's someone else's to do so.
                        I have no problem with that if that someone is qualified, competent, intelligent, and has connections around the league. If not then it's counter productive.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          From Titanic to Deathstar

                          In 4-5 short years, our division has gone from Titanic laughing stalk of the league to an eminent deathstar.

                          Boston: Big 4
                          NYK: Amare, Melo Paul next year?
                          NJ: Russian Marc Cuban, Deron Williams (things are looking up)
                          Philly: Playing great ball with Iggy, Brand, Turner and Holiday
                          Toronto: Just landed James Johnson

                          Is it just my math, or does that all add up to a ton of losses over the next five or so years for our Atlantic division Raps?

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                          • #14
                            I have no problem with this team being in the basement for the next year or two in order to stockpile assets. You build this team right, not half-assed.

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                            • #15
                              How I see it

                              Boston: "Grumpy Old Men". One year, maybe two before it's over.
                              NYC: Bare bones. Dolan is stepping in again, this time vetoing Walsh's efforts to not overpay for Melo, a guy they might have been able to sign as an FA in the summer. Rumors of Zeke being in Dolan's ear again is cause for concern. Last time Dolan and Zeke ran MSG it led to a decade of pathetic basketball due to huge miscalculations and poor judgment. Hard to guess their future but it is anything but a forgone conclusion that they're going to be dominate.
                              Philly: No further ahead than the Raptors besides in the standings. They're probably going to have to get worse before they get better.
                              NJ: Deron Williams makes them instantly better but what do they have around him? The days of buying your way to a championship seem to be almost over as the Owners continue to push for a hard cap and are willing to dominate the players in a lockout if need be. Billionaire owners have no edge over small time owners in a hard cap system. Just ask the World Champion Green Bay Packers about that one.

                              The Raptors will lose a lot this season. The Raptors may lose a lot next season but not as much as this season. The season after that one though, if they stay the course, they should be back to a .500 team with one of the youngest rosters in the league.

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