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Thoughts on Jack & Bayless

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  • #16
    I was 4th row behind the raps bench last night and was very unimpressed by Bayless. He was steamed and pouting the entire game. Definitely a rift between Barbosa and him.

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    • #17
      Dunhills1 wrote: View Post
      I was 4th row behind the raps bench last night and was very unimpressed by Bayless. He was steamed and pouting the entire game. Definitely a rift between Barbosa and him.
      Hmm, that's interesting for sure

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      • #18
        yea I noticed that when Jose came back to the bench after a timeout call late 4th quarter, Bayless gave a Jose a sad face hi-five. Maybe hes acting like this because he wants out of Toronto.
        NBADoppelgangers.tumblr.com

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        • #19
          Employee wrote: View Post
          Yep. For teams that are playing for something. Raps are playing for lotto balls. Why wouldn't you take a chance on someone who can be Jose's replacement?

          JJ wasn't giving the raps anything this year, and is doing sweet FA in New Orleans.
          Because even when you are competing for the lottery balls, you need a veteran player in the locker room. Also, during the rebuild, if you got a player that has a reasonable contract and fit a certian role, you can keep him and use him for the future.

          Rebuild is a process and during the processes you pick up a player here and there. IMO, JJ is a solid back up PG in any team and could have played the role of veteran player in the locker room.

          Now,as a far as taking chance on Scrubs like James Johnson, Bayless and ... Please listen to PodCase of PHD Steve. He has some valid points.

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          • #20
            Multipaul wrote: View Post
            Jack was divisive, unsupportive, and a NEGATIVE influence in the locker room based on many sources.
            Please share one of the sources or your talk is cheap because I can simply say the following too:

            Andera is divisive, unsupportive, and a NEGATIVE influence in the locker room based on many sources.

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            • #21
              Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
              Please share one of the sources or your talk is cheap because I can simply say the following too:

              Andera is divisive, unsupportive, and a NEGATIVE influence in the locker room based on many sources.
              Andera

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              • #22
                Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
                Because even when you are competing for the lottery balls, you need a veteran player in the locker room. Also, during the rebuild, if you got a player that has a reasonable contract and fit a certian role, you can keep him and use him for the future.

                Rebuild is a process and during the processes you pick up a player here and there. IMO, JJ is a solid back up PG in any team and could have played the role of veteran player in the locker room.

                Now,as a far as taking chance on Scrubs like James Johnson, Bayless and ... Please listen to PodCase of PHD Steve. He has some valid points.
                It's common knowledge that DD, Ed, Amir, and Sonny are the usually the last ones in the gym. This without JJ on the team.

                I don't know man, I'm not gonna waste my day trying to convince you that Jack just isn't that good and is straight up sucking this year. Bayless might not be the answer, but has more potential and value to me than a MEDIOCRE back up PG for $5 mill a year.

                If ur so worried about veteran presence than maybe a 3rd stringer that doesn't play for a vet's minimum makes more sense.
                Eh follow my TWITTER!

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                • #23
                  Employee wrote: View Post
                  It's common knowledge that DD, Ed, Amir, and Sonny are the usually the last ones in the gym. This without JJ on the team.

                  I don't know man, I'm not gonna waste my day trying to convince you that Jack just isn't that good and is straight up sucking this year. Bayless might not be the answer, but has more potential and value to me than a MEDIOCRE back up PG for $5 mill a year.

                  If ur so worried about veteran presence than maybe a 3rd stringer that doesn't play for a vet's minimum makes more sense.
                  Don't waste your time on him, he doesn't know shit. If he were the GM of the raps right now we'd be 0 - 82 for the next 10 seasons. I think the move BC made was good to get rid of a scrub like Jack and also the Chicago trade to get us Mr. James johnson.

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                  • #24
                    Bayless is brutal, he by far the most aggravating player on the team.

                    "Bayless with the shot....doesn't go" - Matt Devlin

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                    • #25
                      Jack had to be moved to let Calderon (arguably unmovable) develop back into/and past his 2008 form. Calderon is 5x better than Jack now and will be 10x better in a year or two of full starting PG duties. He is also the PERFECT PG for a rebuilding team. Unless you thought we could somehow trade for Nash, CP3 or Williams without giving up the entire team.

                      Bayless is a good experiment as a backup PG. Now that we've seen him for ~40 games...I don't see him turning into anything special. It doesn't look like he has the right attitude. For now, he's good enough.

                      BTW, horrible time to post this after Jose's game last night. Opinions will be skewed.
                      Last edited by chrischris; Wed Mar 2, 2011, 05:22 PM.

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                      • #26
                        P.S. since I just read Doug's blog. http://thestar.blogs.com/raptors/

                        Do you think Jack could have kept these players to these stats? Not to mention average 12 assists over those 4 games?

                        Paul: seven and five.
                        Jason Kidd: Six and seven.
                        Steve Nash: Seven and 11.
                        Derrick Rose: Thirty-two (19 in the fourth) and 10. And Toronto won.

                        NO JACK COULDN'T

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                        • #27
                          Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
                          Where Did I say that ?? !! You clear Cap Space by moving players and contract that are unreasonable and JJ was not one. You do not create Cap Space by moving guys who can really play in their role and can be beneficial for the future of your club.

                          Now,the DUI is a cheap shot especially when they guy was 0.08 ( legal limit in US) just an hour after his arrest and I am going to leave it at that.

                          JJ was the leader of the young guns, went to Vegas , played with these guys here in Toronto over the summer and ... He embraced the role but BC was not able to deliver on his promise once again and the rest is history.
                          You used the term "cutting cap space" when in fact the correct use should be "increasing cap space" (making more room under the total salary ceiling permitted before a tax is applied and other estrictions kick in). BC did this by getting rid of Anderson & Banks as well as JJ's long term salary and got Peja back hoping he would be a better fit or a spin off in a trade. As it turned out all he got was Ajinca while buying him out. Like I indicated that deal was not just a Bayless for JJ swap. JJ was not helping the team either thru his play or by mere presence since there seemed to be a conflict developing with Jose....and Jose couldnt be moved. I think there are other actions by BC that are more egregious. This is ho-hum at best in a franchises transaction list.

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                          • #28
                            Bendit wrote: View Post
                            You used the term "cutting cap space" when in fact the correct use should be "increasing cap space" (making more room under the total salary ceiling permitted before a tax is applied and other estrictions kick in). BC did this by getting rid of Anderson & Banks as well as JJ's long term salary and got Peja back hoping he would be a better fit or a spin off in a trade. As it turned out all he got was Ajinca while buying him out. Like I indicated that deal was not just a Bayless for JJ swap. JJ was not helping the team either thru his play or by mere presence since there seemed to be a conflict developing with Jose....and Jose couldnt be moved. I think there are other actions by BC that are more egregious. This is ho-hum at best in a franchises transaction list.
                            Lets talk about Peja a little. How much do you think his buy out was ? I am willing to bet ( considering the size of Peja's contract) it would have been cheaper to buy out Banks and Anderson together than what we probably paid Peja.

                            I agree with you that BC thought that he can move Peja but he FAILED yet again !!

                            Now, lets move on to Acijina or what ever his name is ... How much talent is there for us to go through all this to get his guy

                            I know you are trying to put a good spin on this move and make it sound it was for the bigger picture and ... BUT reality is, with 24 million tied up on PG position and BC's FAILURE to move Jose or Banks or even the newly acquired Barbosa for his mistake on Hedo, he had no choice BUT to move the only guy with a reasonable contract and some interest in the market.

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                            • #29
                              Raptors_ wrote: View Post
                              Don't waste your time on him, he doesn't know shit. If he were the GM of the raps right now we'd be 0 - 82 for the next 10 seasons. I think the move BC made was good to get rid of a scrub like Jack and also the Chicago trade to get us Mr. James johnson.
                              LOOOL, 0 and 82 !! really !!! Then I guess I will not be TOO FAR behind BC since after 5 years he has a team with 15 win

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                              • #30
                                Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
                                Lets talk about Peja a little. How much do you think his buy out was ? I am willing to bet ( considering the size of Peja's contract) it would have been cheaper to buy out Banks and Anderson together than what we probably paid Peja.

                                I agree with you that BC thought that he can move Peja but he FAILED yet again !!

                                Now, lets move on to Acijina or what ever his name is ... How much talent is there for us to go through all this to get his guy

                                I know you are trying to put a good spin on this move and make it sound it was for the bigger picture and ... BUT reality is, with 24 million tied up on PG position and BC's FAILURE to move Jose or Banks or even the newly acquired Barbosa for his mistake on Hedo, he had no choice BUT to move the only guy with a reasonable contract and some interest in the market.
                                I try not to spin something on behalf of someone I dont know personally and have no real vested interest in. In this case I was responding originally to the fact that you erroneously posed the JJ for Bayless as a swap in isolation of other parts of that transaction. The fact of the matter is that the whole landscape has changed with regard to tpes and large expiring contracts. There is a glut of both and plus there is a cba coming up which will put a premium on having a smaller payroll. I am sure BC is aware of all of this and even then was proactive in making some moves to better position the franchise going forward. We of course are unaware if he had a deal in place before making that move and it didnt happen.

                                Our disagreement then is that I obviously feel that JJ's loss to the team in it's current state is no big deal. Bayless in my view is a backup just like Jack but...much cheaper and thus offers more flexibility going forward...for a team like the Raptors.

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