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  • #46
    heinz57 wrote: View Post
    Apollo wrote: View Post
    Chris Bosh was one of the best players on the Olympic gold medal winning team. He was a role player there. He's proven he can be a very good role player. He just needs to figure out how to do it n the Heat's system consistently. Star or role player, Bosh is better in either level of responsibly in my honest opinion.

    For the record, Bosh got voted into the All-Star game by the coaches as a third option on that Heat team...As a role player. Bargnani couldn't get the nod from the coaches even though a whole team revolves around him. That says it all right there.
    just take my begrudging admission that bosh is better and leave it at that, dammit!!

    you're right though. i just hate his ass.
    LOL, I had to take the kill shot.

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    • #47
      jd4 wrote: View Post
      Bosh is definitely the better player. Andrea may have more talent but he doesn't use it and Bosh's basketball IQ is better.

      As for the Heat, basically their offence, as presently constructed is based on pushing the ball out to James and Wade, then letting them go. That works great in the regular season against most of the teams in the NBA but when you get a good defensive club like Boston and Chicago and you need to go to a 1/2 court offence, it doesn't work. If it did, the Phoenix Suns of 4-5 years ago would have won a few championships.

      Miami needs to find a play-making point guard who can run the offence and feed Wade and James. Those two guys play too similar of a style to be effective without someone getting them the ball. After that, if they could add a good defensive centre and a decent power forward who can play good D and score occasionally, they'll be fine. Finding these pieces is going to be tough though. One guy that could fit in their nicely is Steve Nash. He'd be great at feeding Wade and James the ball. Not sure if Miami have the assets to get him though in a trade or if Nash would want to go.

      I think Reily won't yet pull the plug on the big 3 yet. Coach Spo. will be the fall guy after the season and I think he'll give it another shot next year. Unfortunately, though, with a hard cap likely coming, I don't know what he's going to do with $45 million tied up in 3 players?

      So basically the heat need Calderon.

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      • #48
        DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
        Bargnani is better its not even close! Comparing there attributes.. Bargnani is bigger, stronger, quicker comparing their skill bargani has longer range, a more versitile arisenal of moves, and better passing out of the double teams. He's also much healthier and much less wear and tear. Bosh is 26 going on 40
        The fact that you don't even mention defense and rebounding says something. Bosh is putting up better stats as the third option this season than Bargnani is as the first option. Who really cares how much more versatile Bargnani is. Charlie Villanueva is more versatile than Dwyane Wade, but guess which one is the better player?
        Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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        • #49
          Tim W. wrote: View Post
          The fact that you don't even mention defense and rebounding says something. Bosh is putting up better stats as the third option this season than Bargnani is as the first option. Who really cares how much more versatile Bargnani is. Charlie Villanueva is more versatile than Dwyane Wade, but guess which one is the better player?
          I didnt compare defense and rebounding for a reason. Simply because those are both team measure but if you've noticed this post is comparing indivual players.

          So are you implying its easier to produce as the focal point where the other team game plans for you and double teams you, as oppose to a third option where your left wide open because the other team has other players to worry about.

          You can't compare apples with oranges. Charlie is a power forward wade is a shooting guard and highly doubt charlie is more versatile than wade.
          Last edited by DunkinDerozan; Thu Mar 10th, 2011, 03:46 PM.

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          • #50
            DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
            I didnt compare defense and rebounding for a reason. Simply because those are both team measure but if you've noticed this post is comparing indivual players.

            So are you implying its easier to produce as the focal point where the other team game plans for you and double teams you, as oppose to a third option where your left wide open because the other team has other players to worry about.

            You can't compare apples with oranges. Charlie is a power forward wade is a shooting guard and highly doubt charlie is more versatile than wade.
            I'm not sure how scoring is individual and rebounding and defense are not. Bosh is by far a better player than Bargnani. When he was the #1 option, not only did he score at least as much as Bargnani does, but he also rebounded a lot better and played better defense. Versatility on offense doesn't matter. Results matter. Karl Malone was not versatile, but he's the second leading scoring in NBA history. Either you can score or not. How many different ways you do it doesn't matter in the end. Just that you can.

            So if Bosh and Bargnani are fairly equal as scorers (Bargnani is more versatile, but Bosh is more efficient and gets to the line a lot more), you have to look at other aspects, and Bosh is a MUCH better rebounder than Bargnani and a better defender. Everything else is about even.

            I simply can't see for the life of me why anyone would say Bargnani is better than Bosh.
            Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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            • #51
              I have to agree with Tim on this one.
              Though most people have been logical enough to say Bosh.

              But if we take it one step further, and do Bosh or Vince.
              I still say Vince. He's the ONLY SuperStar, the Raptors have ever had.
              Bosh proved to be no less of a puss, without even having a 'legitimate' injury.

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              • #52
                Tim W. wrote: View Post
                I'm not sure how scoring is individual and rebounding and defense are not. Bosh is by far a better player than Bargnani. When he was the #1 option, not only did he score at least as much as Bargnani does, but he also rebounded a lot better and played better defense. Versatility on offense doesn't matter. Results matter. Karl Malone was not versatile, but he's the second leading scoring in NBA history. Either you can score or not. How many different ways you do it doesn't matter in the end. Just that you can.

                So if Bosh and Bargnani are fairly equal as scorers (Bargnani is more versatile, but Bosh is more efficient and gets to the line a lot more), you have to look at other aspects, and Bosh is a MUCH better rebounder than Bargnani and a better defender. Everything else is about even.

                I simply can't see for the life of me why anyone would say Bargnani is better than Bosh.
                I listed like 10 reason you just need to open your eyes.

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                • #53
                  DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
                  I listed like 10 reason you just need to open your eyes.
                  All your reasons had to do with scoring, as far as I could tell. You can score 10 different ways, but in the end, all you need to do is put it in the basket. If you can 20 ppg in two ways, you're just as good as someone who can score 20 ppg in 10 ways. You're just not as pretty doing it. Bosh and Bargnani are pretty comparable as scorers, but Bosh is equal or superior in every other attribute. Hard to argue Bargnani is better. Especially if you're doing it with your eyes open.
                  Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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                  • #54
                    joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                    I have to agree with Tim on this one.
                    Though most people have been logical enough to say Bosh.

                    But if we take it one step further, and do Bosh or Vince.
                    I still say Vince. He's the ONLY SuperStar, the Raptors have ever had.
                    Bosh proved to be no less of a puss, without even having a 'legitimate' injury.
                    At their peaks, I'd say Vince was definitely the better player, although neither one is the type of guy you'd want to build a Championship team around.
                    Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                    Follow me on Twitter.

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                    • #55
                      Tim W. wrote: View Post
                      At their peaks, I'd say Vince was definitely the better player, although neither one is the type of guy you'd want to build a Championship team around.
                      Honestly if Vince was less of a self-centered douche, it would have been great to build around him.

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                      • #56
                        JoePanini wrote: View Post
                        Honestly if Vince was less of a self-centered douche, it would have been great to build around him.
                        I've never though of him as self-centered. I've always thought of him as a waste of talent due to his lack of desire to lead and work to improve. He doesn't and didn't have what it takes to push himself to greatness.

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                        • #57
                          Matt52 wrote: View Post
                          I've never though of him as self-centered. I've always thought of him as a waste of talent due to his lack of desire to lead and work to improve. He doesn't and didn't have what it takes to push himself to greatness.
                          he was also prone to pussy-face.. the precursor to talent about to get wasted... and it got worse and worse every passing day that he was here.. you know, when the insides of his eyebrows raise and his forehead got all wrinkly... and he got that look that puppy dogs have when they really gotta pee but you're taking your jolly time opening the door.

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                          • #58
                            Matt52 wrote: View Post
                            I've never though of him as self-centered. I've always thought of him as a waste of talent due to his lack of desire to lead and work to improve. He doesn't and didn't have what it takes to push himself to greatness.
                            True, but he was truly a waste. And so is TMac and Michael Redd. All very talented guys... But I've always perceived him as self-centered. More of a ME player than a team player.

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                            • #59
                              heinz57 wrote: View Post
                              he was also prone to pussy-face.. the precursor to talent about to get wasted... and it got worse and worse every passing day that he was here.. you know, when the insides of his eyebrows raise and his forehead got all wrinkly... and he got that look that puppy dogs have when they really gotta pee but you're taking your jolly time opening the door.
                              Very good point. He also suffered from shotgun-blast. This is where a cramp or twist had the same reaction as a blast from a shotgun - and the same recovery time.

                              Ever see Ed Davis' face when he plays? He should be in a L'Oreal commercial - not a line or wrinkle.

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                              • #60
                                DunkinDerozan is a silly little troll. Why is this a thread? A prime Bargnani isn't even hands down the best player on a 17 win team. Furthermore, defense and rebounding aside, Bosh still destroys Bargnani when it comes to putting up points.

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