Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Core + 2 = Winning Team?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Raptors_
    replied
    CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I think all moves the Raps make are dependent on the luck of the lottery balls... after that it becomes a domino effect. What I mean is, I'm guessing 'Plan A' starts with drafting Irving, 'Plan B' starts with drafting Barnes and 'Plan C' stars with BC crying after we get screwed by the lottery system!

    For me, the ideal would be drafting Irving to be the PG of the future. Here are my thoughts, hoping that 'Plan A' comes to fruition for Raptors fans!

    PG
    - Irving can start the season as the backup with Calderon mentoring him how to become a true floor general, with a pass-first mentality
    - Irving eventually becomes the starter, with Calderon being a solid (albeit pricey) backup
    - Bayless becomes trade bait and is doubtful to be with the team next season

    SG
    - DeRozan continues to blossom into a star, but needs to work on his defense
    - Weems would be a solid backup if he can be re-signed for $3M or less, otherwise he leaves as UFA, leaving Barbosa to continue as backup SG for one more season
    - if Weems is re-signed, Barbosa and his expiring contract become trade bait

    SF
    - after drafting Irving, BC must look to trades and/or free agency to upgrade the starting SF spot (they have the TPE, Bayless and potentially Barbosa as trade bait)
    - James Johnson and Kleiza (likely a very untradeable contract) would both be solid backup SF, as they bring different styles and strengths to the position and would give JT flexibility for lineup matching

    PF
    - Amir Johnson and Davis are both good young players who hustle and contribute on both ends of the court and can rebound

    C
    - I assume that Bargnani will be the starting C, which I am fine with... if Irving can be a significantly better defensive PG than Calderon and the new starting SF is a good defender/rebounder, then the combination of the defensive upgrades at those two positions, an improving DeRozan and the already good PF position, Bargnani's biggest shortcoming (help defense and rebounding) would be much better masked, allowing his offensive advantages to be all the more significant to this team
    - I think a legit backup C, who is totally focussed on defense & rebounding would be the perfect compliment to Bargnani, as he could be used in crucial late game mintues when defending a lead

    PG: Irving, Calderon
    SG: DeRozan, Weems/Barbosa
    SF: ???, Johnson, Kleiza
    PF: Davis, Johnson
    C: Bargnani, ???, Alabi (long-term project)

    If the Raptors are able to draft Irving and find a starting SF via trade/free agency, I think they would be shaping up to have a pretty solid young nucleous of players that would be able to grow together and create a solid chemistry (Irving, DeRozan, Amir Johnson, Davis, Bargnani and the TBD starting SF would all be 26 or under - a cheap Weems, James Johnson and Kleiza would also fit into a 26-and-under core rotation).

    This offseason will truly be a domino effect, starting with those ping pong balls...
    i hope this plan actually works. I'm keepin my fingers crossed for irving

    Leave a comment:


  • CalgaryRapsFan
    replied
    I think all moves the Raps make are dependent on the luck of the lottery balls... after that it becomes a domino effect. What I mean is, I'm guessing 'Plan A' starts with drafting Irving, 'Plan B' starts with drafting Barnes and 'Plan C' stars with BC crying after we get screwed by the lottery system!

    For me, the ideal would be drafting Irving to be the PG of the future. Here are my thoughts, hoping that 'Plan A' comes to fruition for Raptors fans!

    PG
    - Irving can start the season as the backup with Calderon mentoring him how to become a true floor general, with a pass-first mentality
    - Irving eventually becomes the starter, with Calderon being a solid (albeit pricey) backup
    - Bayless becomes trade bait and is doubtful to be with the team next season

    SG
    - DeRozan continues to blossom into a star, but needs to work on his defense
    - Weems would be a solid backup if he can be re-signed for $3M or less, otherwise he leaves as UFA, leaving Barbosa to continue as backup SG for one more season
    - if Weems is re-signed, Barbosa and his expiring contract become trade bait

    SF
    - after drafting Irving, BC must look to trades and/or free agency to upgrade the starting SF spot (they have the TPE, Bayless and potentially Barbosa as trade bait)
    - James Johnson and Kleiza (likely a very untradeable contract) would both be solid backup SF, as they bring different styles and strengths to the position and would give JT flexibility for lineup matching

    PF
    - Amir Johnson and Davis are both good young players who hustle and contribute on both ends of the court and can rebound

    C
    - I assume that Bargnani will be the starting C, which I am fine with... if Irving can be a significantly better defensive PG than Calderon and the new starting SF is a good defender/rebounder, then the combination of the defensive upgrades at those two positions, an improving DeRozan and the already good PF position, Bargnani's biggest shortcoming (help defense and rebounding) would be much better masked, allowing his offensive advantages to be all the more significant to this team
    - I think a legit backup C, who is totally focussed on defense & rebounding would be the perfect compliment to Bargnani, as he could be used in crucial late game mintues when defending a lead

    PG: Irving, Calderon
    SG: DeRozan, Weems/Barbosa
    SF: ???, Johnson, Kleiza
    PF: Davis, Johnson
    C: Bargnani, ???, Alabi (long-term project)

    If the Raptors are able to draft Irving and find a starting SF via trade/free agency, I think they would be shaping up to have a pretty solid young nucleous of players that would be able to grow together and create a solid chemistry (Irving, DeRozan, Amir Johnson, Davis, Bargnani and the TBD starting SF would all be 26 or under - a cheap Weems, James Johnson and Kleiza would also fit into a 26-and-under core rotation).

    This offseason will truly be a domino effect, starting with those ping pong balls...
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Sat Mar 12, 2011, 02:43 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • pran
    replied
    Maleko wrote: View Post
    I definitely like the idea of picking up Biedrins. He is big time out of favour in Golden State (they tried to use him to get G Wallace). I think he is too defensive minded for the Warriors who seem hell bent on offense and damn the defense mentality. (Hey Triano should go there). If there is a way we can pry him and their draft pick (trading Bargs?) then hell ya. I prefer drafting H Barnes or Derrick Williams to Josh Smith though, and gunning for a point guard with a 2nd first rounder this year, or next year 1st rounder.
    why? biedrins rebounds well, but is below average defensively.

    Unless we can get irving (unlikely), I like you am against the idea of drafting any other pg

    Leave a comment:


  • Maleko
    replied
    Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Although - not saying this could happen - but for the sake of argument the following would be a situation where I think they would be a winning team.

    Lottery gods send Irving to TOR either at pick 1 or 2 (although I don't see him getting past 1 unless MIN picks).

    The Raptors can trade for Josh Smith (Any trade for Smith assumes they do not get past the second round of the playoffs and this year they could struggle to get past the first depending on the match up with NYK or ORL). Besides financial relief and future 1st round picks, the Raps have nothing that they should be willing to give up that would interest the Hawks, in my opinion. Therefore this would have to be a three or four team trade that would give ATL better role players, most likely a true C, and probably a future draft pick (I am going to play with the trade machine - I have ATL/TOR/MIN on the brain for some reason). Any trade involving Smith (or any big salary to TOR) would require Calderon to be moved.

    I really like the idea of Josh Smith as he can certainly play the SF on D and offensively we already have a 3 point shooting C so he can go inside against smaller SF's as Davis or Amir are at the 4 plus Smith can hit the long two with consistency and his hitting 33% on his 3's this year. I think there could be some ridiculous match up nightmares for other teams and what Smith and Amir/Davis bring in the front court, combined with improvement in DD's D and a PG who can keep their own man in front - I am feeling tingly in my neither regions.

    If Irving lived up to the hype, I think this could be a winning, playoff team. The great thing about Irving is he can already shoot - many PG's come in to the league without a jump shot (Wall, Westbrook and Rose come immediately to mind).

    Starting line up:

    PG: Irving
    SG: DD
    SF: Smith
    PF: Davis
    C: Bargnani

    As for reserves, what about the TPE on Biendris? It would certainly be a gamble but he is only 24 and not long removed from a double-double machine. I wonder if a change of scenario and a defined role of rebound and patrol the paint would help him get confidence again. At the PG, I don't see Bayless being happy behind Irving. Barbosa may opt out. So I'm not too sure how the backcourt reserves has a lot of uncertainty.

    Reserves:

    PG: *****
    SG: *****
    SF: Johnson
    PF: Amir
    C: Biendris
    I definitely like the idea of picking up Biedrins. He is big time out of favour in Golden State (they tried to use him to get G Wallace). I think he is too defensive minded for the Warriors who seem hell bent on offense and damn the defense mentality. (Hey Triano should go there). If there is a way we can pry him and their draft pick (trading Bargs?) then hell ya. I prefer drafting H Barnes or Derrick Williams to Josh Smith though, and gunning for a point guard with a 2nd first rounder this year, or next year 1st rounder.

    Leave a comment:


  • LBF
    replied
    i need a longer look at james and weems needs to stay healthy for a whole season in order for me to make a decision on them we need a different pg pairing that's for sure.

    Leave a comment:


  • pran
    replied
    a few things i have noticed:

    -calderon is weak defensively, but still better than last season, he is an excellent ball distributor though, and is very flexible in his role we can definitely afford to keep him for a couple more years, no matter which direction this team is headed, he is not the long term solution though. He is more the "Bibby" of the raptors than anything
    -Bargnani has shown no improvement defensively imo, I would be happy to see him traded for a draft pick where we can get a prospect centre.
    -Derozan is bad defensively, he needs to work on this more than anything this off-season, then next season we will see if he is part of the solution, if not he also needs to go. He has all the physical tools, lets see what he does
    -I hope we draft barnes, a lot of scouting reports say he has the potential to be a lock-down defender
    -Don't look for Ed to put on any bulk, its highly unlikely, I see him more as a PF....a really good PF.
    -There is no Guarantee that Kanter will be good defensively as scouting reports have said he is slow to rotate....but as he is so young im willing to give him a chance.

    Leave a comment:


  • slaw
    replied
    It's so hard to guess about next year cause of the CBA, the unknown draft position, and BC's hyperactive nature in terms of trades. Having said that, I agree with the general consensus that the Raps need to upgrade the 3 through the draft, trade of FA. Johnson and Klieza doesn't cut it. I could live with Calderon at the point if an elite prospect like Irving isn't available - there is no need to go and sign another average/below average PG.

    I don't see a guy like Stuckey at the point on this team. Stuckey needs to go somewhere where the 2 and 3 are the primary ballhandlers and he can play off-the-ball. I'd love Josh Smith on this team but I don't see a plausible way to make that happen given the Raps personnel.

    In the end, it always comes back to Bargs. Can he play big minutes at the 5 on a good team? If not, then you need to address that spot as well and it affects everything else. If yes, then you really only need to upgrade the 3, find a decent backup PG and add shooters off the bench. You also need to defend as a team but that's a different story...

    Leave a comment:


  • mcHAPPY
    replied
    Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
    Matt, dunno if it's workable but Bargs for Josh Smith and parts would be good right (or sign and trade)? I mean they want a true center (I know that Bargs isn't) but paired with Horford, they still form one heck of a tandem. As for J-Smove, he would be very nice alongside Davis. What a pair!!!

    PS> I woke up wet too!
    I would only want Josh Smith if Bargs was here. Seriously. If Bargs left, they still need a C and Smith's game on the offensive end is where I see a problem without Bargnani. Davis is not a C - even with bulk - he'd be a PF asked to play C like Horford.

    I really think a PG who cuts down the penetration combined with two great rebounders/weak side help defenders (Davis and Smith) would help enough on defense to make the match up nightmares on offensive more than worth Bargnani well noted shortcomings on D and the glass.

    Leave a comment:


  • hateslosing
    replied
    I think the core of Davis, Demar, and, Bargs plus some good talent at small forward and point guard could actually be a very good team in a few years. Let's say we draft Barnes and he works out, and Demar and Ed keep getting better. In two years this team is suddenly dangerous. If Bargs improves his D and rebounding or we get a better defensive center then I think this team as it is currently constructed could go places. Just need some luck and some hard work from our players.

    Leave a comment:


  • Balls of Steel
    replied
    Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Although - not saying this could happen - but for the sake of argument the following would be a situation where I think they would be a winning team.

    Lottery gods send Irving to TOR either at pick 1 or 2 (although I don't see him getting past 1 unless MIN picks).

    The Raptors can trade for Josh Smith (Any trade for Smith assumes they do not get past the second round of the playoffs and this year they could struggle to get past the first depending on the match up with NYK or ORL). Besides financial relief and future 1st round picks, the Raps have nothing that they should be willing to give up that would interest the Hawks, in my opinion. Therefore this would have to be a three or four team trade that would give ATL better role players, most likely a true C, and probably a future draft pick (I am going to play with the trade machine - I have ATL/TOR/MIN on the brain for some reason). Any trade involving Smith (or any big salary to TOR) would require Calderon to be moved.

    I really like the idea of Josh Smith as he can certainly play the SF on D and offensively we already have a 3 point shooting C so he can go inside against smaller SF's as Davis or Amir are at the 4 plus Smith can hit the long two with consistency and his hitting 33% on his 3's this year. I think there could be some ridiculous match up nightmares for other teams and what Smith and Amir/Davis bring in the front court, combined with improvement in DD's D and a PG who can keep their own man in front - I am feeling tingly in my neither regions.

    If Irving lived up to the hype, I think this could be a winning, playoff team. The great thing about Irving is he can already shoot - many PG's come in to the league without a jump shot (Wall, Westbrook and Rose come immediately to mind).

    Starting line up:

    PG: Irving
    SG: DD
    SF: Smith
    PF: Davis
    C: Bargnani

    As for reserves, what about the TPE on Biendris? It would certainly be a gamble but he is only 24 and not long removed from a double-double machine. I wonder if a change of scenario and a defined role of rebound and patrol the paint would help him get confidence again. At the PG, I don't see Bayless being happy behind Irving. Barbosa may opt out. So I'm not too sure how the backcourt reserves has a lot of uncertainty.

    Reserves:

    PG: *****
    SG: *****
    SF: Johnson
    PF: Amir
    C: Biendris

    (don't beat me up to much on any replies... I realize I am totally having fantasies this afternoon).
    Matt, dunno if it's workable but Bargs for Josh Smith and parts would be good right (or sign and trade)? I mean they want a true center (I know that Bargs isn't) but paired with Horford, they still form one heck of a tandem. As for J-Smove, he would be very nice alongside Davis. What a pair!!!

    PS> I woke up wet too!

    Leave a comment:


  • ceez
    replied
    I had a dream we traded Bargs for Hibbert and drafted Barnes.

    I woke up to wet sheets.

    Leave a comment:


  • RaptorsFan4Life
    replied
    This team really needs a PG/SG/SF that can consistently hit 3s. Why are we always in the extreme? Couple years ago all we could do was hit jumper/3s and now all we can do is get in the paint/mid ranger.

    Leave a comment:


  • mcHAPPY
    replied
    Although - not saying this could happen - but for the sake of argument the following would be a situation where I think they would be a winning team.

    Lottery gods send Irving to TOR either at pick 1 or 2 (although I don't see him getting past 1 unless MIN picks).

    The Raptors can trade for Josh Smith (Any trade for Smith assumes they do not get past the second round of the playoffs and this year they could struggle to get past the first depending on the match up with NYK or ORL). Besides financial relief and future 1st round picks, the Raps have nothing that they should be willing to give up that would interest the Hawks, in my opinion. Therefore this would have to be a three or four team trade that would give ATL better role players, most likely a true C, and probably a future draft pick (I am going to play with the trade machine - I have ATL/TOR/MIN on the brain for some reason). Any trade involving Smith (or any big salary to TOR) would require Calderon to be moved.

    I really like the idea of Josh Smith as he can certainly play the SF on D and offensively we already have a 3 point shooting C so he can go inside against smaller SF's as Davis or Amir are at the 4 plus Smith can hit the long two with consistency and his hitting 33% on his 3's this year. I think there could be some ridiculous match up nightmares for other teams and what Smith and Amir/Davis bring in the front court, combined with improvement in DD's D and a PG who can keep their own man in front - I am feeling tingly in my neither regions.

    If Irving lived up to the hype, I think this could be a winning, playoff team. The great thing about Irving is he can already shoot - many PG's come in to the league without a jump shot (Wall, Westbrook and Rose come immediately to mind).

    Starting line up:

    PG: Irving
    SG: DD
    SF: Smith
    PF: Davis
    C: Bargnani

    As for reserves, what about the TPE on Biendris? It would certainly be a gamble but he is only 24 and not long removed from a double-double machine. I wonder if a change of scenario and a defined role of rebound and patrol the paint would help him get confidence again. At the PG, I don't see Bayless being happy behind Irving. Barbosa may opt out. So I'm not too sure how the backcourt reserves has a lot of uncertainty.

    Reserves:

    PG: *****
    SG: *****
    SF: Johnson
    PF: Amir
    C: Biendris

    (don't beat me up to much on any replies... I realize I am totally having fantasies this afternoon).

    Leave a comment:


  • TheGloveinRapsUniform
    replied
    What do you guys think of Rodney Stuckey?
    He's an FA next year and i think he'll be a good fit with the Raps.
    Big guard who can defend the perimeter, slasher.

    Say we sign Stuckey, draft Barnes or Terrence Jones along with Demar, Ed and Bargs, that should be a good starting 5 right there.....Id still want a defensive center tho, but that would be either Bargs or Ed has to sit or Bargs get traded.

    Being a realist, id go with this 5.

    Leave a comment:


  • pran
    replied
    what i hope for next season:

    draft barnes 5th overall

    trade bargnani and pieces for 10th-12th pick in the draft

    sign a big man like kanter, or that lithuanian guy here's hoping that they fall this low

    remind calderon that the team and his health is more important than his country right now

    instill in derozan that defense is more important than developing a 3 point shot right now

    try and convince Ed Davis that toronto isn't the shithole the american's make it to be

    be patient with bayless

    sign sonny to the minimum
    sign ajinca for the minimum

    then our roster would be:

    C Kanter/jonas valanciunas
    PF Special Ed, Amir
    SF Barnes, Kleiza
    SG Derozan, weems
    PG Calderon, Bayless

    not bad eh..

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X